Day 8 of the reach out to Mormons – Review
Day 8 saw another visit from 1 of the 12 LDS apostles. This meant again that an even larger number of people came to pageant. In turn this meant more conversations :-
Great to see Paul Jennings & Carole Warner coming all the way from Stockport for the evening :-
On Day 7 Pastor Ian Moulton from Chapel House Christian fellowship (Chorley) had a conversation with a young Mormon and asked the young Mormon what he thought of what Bruce McConkie teaches regarding Heavenly Father having intercourse with Mary? The young Mormon refused to accept what Ian had said was true. Ian said “I’ll come back tomorrow and show from your doctrine if you like?”. Ian said “if I do, will you think again about your beliefs?” The young Mormon did not answer the question but agreed to meet Ian tomorrow.
True to his word Ian came back and showed this young Mormon on page 547 of Mormon Doctrine that indeed Bruce McConkie said those words. Even though it was in black & white the young Mormon refused to accept that is what Bruce McConkie said. He then accused us of “tearing down his faith”. As Ian politely said “I am only showing you your own literature”.
Un-fortunately a lot of Mormons do not know a lot of there own teachings, they just go along with it because they feel its right (or should I say they know its right).
Truth will prevail! And for one more night this week will bring truth to the Mormons. Truth regarding who the true Jesus is.
John 8:32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Last night tonight!
Jason
Heavenly Father had intercourse with Heavenly Father? (according to Bruce McKonkie in Mormon Doctrine! Well let me quote what is said in that book on that page:”He (Jesus Christ) was born into this world as the Son of Mary (inheriting from her the power of mortality) and as the Son of Man of Holiness (inheriting from Him the powers of immortality)”.
In other words Jesus was the Son of God!
There is NO MENTION of Heavenly Father having intercourse with Mary!”
“Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547)
I am a former mormon and a born again Christian. I have a collection of mormon books as well. I have turned to page 129 of Mormon Doctrine by McConkie (published 1966) but I cannot find an overt reference of God the father having intercourse with Mary. Are you referring to “this particular earth as the literal Son of the Father…”? I do have another book “Principles of the Gospel” copyright 1943 published by the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints which reads on page 196: “Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring: that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and which afterward taken up by the process of resurrection and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation for the title ‘Son of God’ as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary.”
(This quote is more definitive of real LDS doctrine. The book may be hard to come by, but there are some stores in Salt Lake that carry such rare books.)
Frequently I have had LDS tell me: “Well, we don’t believe that any more. We don’t know how God the Father did it. God the Father has powers we don’t understand.”
This was a very clearly taught part of Mormonism in times past as Edy has showed there, here is some more.
“Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p. 822)
The Father came down and begat him, the same as we do now…” (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, vol. 1, p. 321; February 16, 1849, Salt Lake City)
Here is a corker
“When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven… Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, and be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50, 51)
You can see the line of thought at the end there.
The quote that Jason has given is more than clear enough, however as is very common Mormons do not read things for what they say, but rather what their preconceived idea is of what it says, this is common and understandable as so many statements of Mormon leaders in times past are not accepted any more. So either the meaning has to be changed or it needs to be accepted that they were wrong, which is a troubling possibility for the “one true prophet” on the earth at that time to teach wrong things.
Did the Church leaders of Christendom, in the past say things which are NOW not accepted by the main stream Christian Church? Did they not treat those who said the earth was NOT the center of the universe and not flat, along with many more things, as heretics? / The Mormons believe the restitution of all things began in 1820. That restoration is still going on! We are ALL climbing the mountain of truth. EVEN THE MORMON CHURCH! That is why 2/3 of the Book of Mormon has been withheld. And in my opinion when it is revealed, its contents will shock a great .
many people, especially the so called “learned”.
Church leaders also can have there own ideas and state them. That is there right. They do not necessarily become official Church Doctrine.
That is why, on the way to the summit, adjustments have to be made, sometimes even to the doctrine. We are ALL in a learning process, even Einstein and Bobby.
A fair point Todd but these guys were not claiming to be Prophets in a Church that prides itself so much in its “continuing revelation”.
Not just McConkie. Several other LDS leaders taught the same thing.
http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm