Why does Bobby Gilpin reach out to Mormons?

Posted on May 16, 2013 by

Hey all, some of you may have noticed me linking to Russ Bale’s  interview by Suzanne Witt the other day on why he reaches out to Mormons.

Yesterday I was also interviewed by Suzanne on why I do this, please see that interview above. I thought this would be helpful as this is a question I am often asked, and so often I think Mormons assume its out of some hatred on my part towards Mormons, of even the Mormon Church.

Please give this interview a listen and I hope you will see this is not the case. You may not agree with my conclusions, but I hope in the least you will see that my motivation is not in anyway a negative thing.

As ever I am open and looking forward to your comments.

Posted in Why reach out to Mormons | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , | 1 Comment

Is Mormonism Ditching prophets 2: Sack the Seers, Summon the Scholars

Posted on May 15, 2013 by

Last time I asked, “Is Mormonism ditching prophets?” we looked at the fact that Mormonism taught and practiced racial discrimination as a key doctrine for almost 140 years of its 180 year history. What is surprising is that today’s Mormon prophets insist they have no idea where this teaching originated, or why it was taught, suggesting it was no more than cultural.

Comparisons are made with other churches that also practiced discrimination. They changed their stance on these issues and so has the Mormon Church. Not an unreasonable argument, we are meant to conclude. But the Mormon Church cannot reasonably make that defence, the comparison doesn’t bear scrutiny.

Fallen Man, Risen Lord, Sure Hope

Christian churches are led by fallible people, depending on centuries of scholarship and a developing theology for understanding and insight. We are led, we would insist, by the Spirit but flawed, we would confess, by the fallen nature of leaders and congregation alike.

That is why we go to great lengths to maintain biblical fundamentals while “allowing” disagreement on secondary issues. We recognise the wisdom of St Augustine who said, “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”

Our standing before God does not depend on our capacity to grasp an exhaustive theology but on our faith in Christ and his simple message of salvation (John 5: 24-25) We confess our sin, run to the cross and throw ourselves on God’s generous mercy (Romans 3; Acts 2:21) Only this way can fallen man, trusting in a risen Lord, have a sure hope.

That said, we are not saved into ignorance but need to grow in the things of God (Acts 2:42-47) That growing happens across cultures, generations and ages and is informed by scholarship that produces better Bible translations and commentary, debate and disagreement that challenge preconceptions, insight and inspiration that shine light into blind corners and experience that humbles us before the towering word of God. For Mormons this is evidence of apostasy.

After the death of Jesus Christ, they claim, wicked people persecuted the Apostles and killed them. Without Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted…Without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to interpret the scriptures (scholarship, debate, disagreement)…False ideas were taught as truth…The doctrines…became distorted or forgotten. This eventually led to the emergence of many churches – apostasy.

The message of Mormonism centres on “living prophets” (insight, inspiration). John Taylor, third Mormon president, wrote, “the principle of present revelation…is the very foundation of our religion” (Journal of Discourses, p.371). Elder Joseph W. McMurrin was one of the First Seven Presidents of the First Council of the Seventy from Oct.5 1897. In a General Conference address in April 1902 he said:

“A Prophet of God stands in the midst of the people now, clothed upon with every gift, key, power, and authority, that was given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and that same inspiration, that same power to penetrate the future, to comprehend the purposes of the Almighty, is with the Priesthood that is in our midst today.”

So, how did Mormonism go from being led by men clothed upon with every gift, key, power, and authority, who can penetrate the future and comprehend the purposes of the Almighty to, “Holy Moroni! What just happened?”

Sack the Seers, Summon the Scholars

Mormons reject the orthodox churches with their scholars, theologies, creeds and denominations and follow prophets, seers and revelators; one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph.4:5). Books are well and good, scholarship admirable but the sure word of prophecy gives us “the mind of Christ.” ( 1Cor. 2:16) “Surely, the LORD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7 KJV)

But what do you do when those prophets prove less than insightful and inspired? When “modern prophets” can’t explain the “essentials” around which Mormons are to unite? When comprehension, inspiration and penetrating insight fail where do you turn?

1981

The Mormon Church has helpfully published an online comparison of the differences between the 1981 and 2013 editions of the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. In the Introduction to the 1981 edition we are told:

“The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of divine revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the kingdom of God on the earth in the last days…In the revelations, the doctrines of the gospel are set forth with explanations about such fundamental matters as the nature of the Godhead, the origin of man, the reality of Satan, the purpose of mortality, the necessity for obedience, the need for repentance, the workings of the Holy Spirit, the ordinances and performances that pertain to salvation, the destiny of the earth, the future conditions of man after the Resurrection and the Judgment, the eternity of the marriage relationship, and the eternal nature of the family.

Concerning this publication the elders of the church gave solemn testimony that the Lord had borne record to their souls of the truth of the revelations.” (Emphasis added)

Notable is the unequivocal endorsement of these revelations as coming direct from God, having absolute and unqualified authority. They are divine and inspired in their nature, authoritative in their purpose, revelatory in regards doctrine, fundamental in their matter and comprehensive in their teaching; undiluted by the corruption of having passed through “profane hands,” a popular Mormon description of how we got the Bible.

Unlike the churches of apostate “Christendom”,  there is no speculation or disagreement, no recourse to scholars to explain, no equivocation; doctrine and praxis are plainly set forward as they come from the very mouth of God and pen of the prophet. This is the Mormonism of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Joseph F Smith, James E Talmage, Spencer W Kimball and Bruce R McConkie. This is the Mormonism with which I am familiar: reassuringly certain, declarative and dogmatic.

2013

Into this affirmative account these words were inserted for the 2013 edition. I include my own commentary in plain text and brackets:

The revelations were originally recorded by Joseph Smith’s scribes (like the Bible, they are now at least once removed from their source),  and Church members enthusiastically shared handwritten copies with each other  (like the Bible there were many early copies that may not have all agreed at every point) To create a more permanent record, scribes soon copied these revelations into manuscript record books  (like early Christian leaders they selected the best from a variety of copies),  which Church leaders used in preparing the revelations to be printed  (which selected copies were then published as the ‘authoritative’ version)

In other words, the Doctrine and Covenants was put together the same way Mormons think the Bible was. The difference is, we have thousands of part and full copies of early New Testament texts, which we can compare with our Bibles and which give us confidence in their faithfulness to the original. In a striking parallel with Islam, “early copies” of Joseph’s “revelations” have failed to come down to us and we are left only with what the church “officially” tells us belongs in the book. To continue:

Joseph and the early Saints viewed the revelations as they did the Church: living, dynamic, and subject to refinement with additional revelation  (opening the door for scholarship to define doctrine, bearing in mind the 2013 edition is the product of scholarship, not revelation) They also recognized that unintentional errors had likely occurred through the process of copying the revelations and preparing them for publication  (they have passed through corrupt hands) Thus, a Church conference asked Joseph Smith in 1831 to “correct those errors or mistakes which he may discover by the Holy Spirit…”

…The early Latter-day Saints prized the revelations and viewed them as messages from God  (note they are now only “viewed” as messages from God).  On one occasion in late 1831, several elders of the Church gave solemn testimony that the Lord had borne record to their souls of the truth of the revelations.

Notable now is the apparent equivocation over these revelations coming direct from God, having now a qualified authority. Apparently divine in origin, they seem more capable of interpretation and disagreement in their nature. It is a short step from here to saying that these are true “in the original autographs,” as is said of the Bible. The Bible, however, can appeal to an embarrassment of riches evidentially in manuscript, history, archaeology and scholarship to strengthen its claims.

Writings of Joseph Smith

I suggest the next step in this reassessment of Mormonism will be opening up the secret vaults in church headquarters and bringing out early Mormon documents, diaries and journals we know are there. There is already a work in progress to collate and make public the exhaustive writings of Joseph Smith. What a resource for those now seeking to reinvent Mormonism for the 21st century.

Against these early Mormon Church documents official Mormon writings and claims can be compared. This will give space for Mormons to move from a fundamentalist, literalist view of their faith to something that builds more on mythic truth than its traditional dogmatic truth.

It was felt necessary in the 1981 introduction to give an unquestionably positive account (some might say a selective account) of the publication of these revelations. Why, if not to instil in Mormons the thought that nothing qualified the utterances of their prophet. The substantial account inserted in 2013 offers considerable qualification of everything in the book and makes it capable of “explanation” by scholars in a way it never was before, and that puts scholars, not prophets, in the place of authority for the 21st century Mormon.

Mike Thomas was a Mormon for 14 years, became a Christian in 1986 and for many years worked with Reachout Trust speaking and writing about Mormonism. He still researches Mormonism and occasionally posts his thoughts on Mormon issues The Mormon Chapbook

Posted in Scripture Changes | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , | 2 Comments

Concerned Christians Conference 2013

Posted on May 15, 2013 by

Concerned Christians

Hey all for those of you who don’t know Concerned Christians, a ministry led by Andy Poland based in Arizona that seeks to reach out to Mormons, had their conference in the last month or so, you can catch the talks on youtube here.

Of particular interest to me was Shawn Mccraney sharing his story of going from Mormonism to Christ and how he got started in hosting the tv show Heart of the Matter. This is outstanding and so worth a watch.

Posted in Ex Mormon Stories, Ex Mormon Testimony, Why reach out to Mormons | Tagged , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

Why Do We Reach Out To Mormons? An Interview With Russ Bales.

Posted on May 14, 2013 by

This is a really interesting interview with my Utah based friend Russ Bales who runs the website Mormon Doctrine, talking about why he engages in the Ministry of reaching out to Mormons. This is helpful as it gets beneath the surface a bit on why people do this, as often I find we are seen as hate filled Anti-Mormons. I think Russ shows well that this is far from the case here.

Posted in Why reach out to Mormons | 1 Comment

Teachings of the prophet Lorenzo Snow, Chapter 9, “Sacred Family Relationships” By Vicky Gilpin

Posted on May 11, 2013 by

Lorenzo Snow

In this Chapter Lorenzo admonishes the Church to come together seeking a oneness in their families. He advises parents to act in such a way that they can truly say to their children, ‘do as I do,’ as well as ‘do as I say.’ He encourages Husbands particularly to be kind to their wives. Within Mormonism the marriage is eternal and therefore is of great importance. He stresses that if you are faithful, your relationships with others will continue in the next life.

“The associations that are formed here, will be possessed by [us] in the eternal worlds. Fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers… The same forms of relationship here will still exist beyond the veil; the ties here formed will grow stronger in the other life which is to come.”

The thing I ask myself here though is how could this possibly be?

Perhaps if all of your family members made it to the highest level of the celestial kingdom would you be together forever then?

I don’t see how, with each couple exalted and living in separate worlds.

What if you are exalted and your children are not?

Then you are eternally separated.

What if none of you make it into the celestial kingdom?

Then you will be eternally separated.

Vicky 1

And what about God?

Heaven to me is to be eternally in His presence. But who in Mormonism truly gets to have this? If God (as LDS theology states), has a physical body and those who are exalted, are each busy populating their individual worlds. How could they each be eternally in the presence of the Father. This is totally illogical.

The Bible says that we will be with God the Father and Jesus Christ eternally.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

John 14:2-4 (ESV) 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?[a] 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”[b]

 

Jesus says that His Fathers House has many rooms, he speaks of one house. Heaven is one house with many rooms. Nowhere in the Bible does it say otherwise.

The LDSChurch misinterpret 1 Corinthians 15:41 to make the claim that there are varying degrees of Heaven…

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[a] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

As you can see if you read on past verse 41, you are quickly told what the Sun, Moon and stars represent. Paul was speaking of the difference between our mortal and immortal bodies, as is plainly shown in the text.

John 17:24 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me.

Gods plan is for us to be with Him, to be with Christ where he is. He wants us to see His Glory, not to seek our own.

You could say, ‘Gods way are not our ways, we can’t always understand the things of God.’

Isaiah 55:8 (ESV) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.

Well I understand this, we have the Trinity, but although the Trinity may be a little confusing, I can just about bring my mind around to understanding it. I cannot however understand the utter contradictions in LDS theology regarding Heaven.

Think about it, are you worthy to be exalted? Are you keeping the whole Law? Are all of your family? Really? Maybe you do consider yourselves worthy of exaltation but are your children also? Or will you be separated for eternity?

“To enter the celestial and obtain exultation it is necessary that the whole law be kept” ( Joseph Fielding Smith, The way to perfection,p206)

I ask these questions as I know one of the big attractions for many to Mormonism is this idea of eternal families. The truth is though, according to Mormon theology you are more likely to be eternally separated from your family.

“There are preferential places and conditions in the hereafter, as there are here. The highest and most desirable is the celestial kingdom of our Father. In that Kingdom and only there do intelligences attain their highest state of perfection. Only there do we have assurance of the reunion of our families and the perpetuation of family relationship  and eternal increase. In that kingdom man may ultimately become divine.” (Stephen L Richards, conference reports, April 1938, p.24)

In other words only those worthy of exaltation will be with their families forever.

“President Francis M. Lyman many times has declared. And he had reason to declare, I believe, that if we save one half of the Latter-day Saints, that is, with an exultation in the celestial kingdom of God, we will be doing well…He would have every one of us go in if we would; but there are Laws and ordinances that we must keep;if we do not observe the Law we cannot enter. ( Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of salvation 2:15.)

In Christianity, those who receive Jesus as their saviour will all be together in Heaven. There are no differing levels we will all be eternally in the presence of the Father. If your mother, brother or sister also accept Jesus as Lord, they too will be with you in Heaven. Christianity does not place great emphasis on families, or on marriage, in respect of heaven, the bible tells us…

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (Matt 22:30) ESV

Our Marriage and other relationships are important for this life, but in Heaven our focus is to be God.

 As always I appreciate any comments or feedback

Posted in Teachings of the Prophet Lorenzo Snow | Tagged , , , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

Is Mormonism ditching Prophets? A look at the 2013 edition of the LDS Scriptures

Posted on May 6, 2013 by

No Business like Joe BusinessIs the Mormon Church turning from “living prophets” to academia to gain traction in the 21st century? Are Mormons turning to prophets for homiletic inspiration and academics for professional credibility in the 24/7 internet world? Does the Mormon message of prophets mean anything anymore?

The unique claim of Mormons is that they are led by “living prophets.” Prophets are integral to their claim to be a “Restoration” church, prophets are what distinguish Mormonism and prophets are foundational to their claim to, alone in this world, have authority to speak and act for God. It is understood, historically, that when a Mormon scholar speaks on Mormon issues, no matter how illustrious his or her career, how impressive their curriculum vitae, it is still “only their opinion,” albeit a professional opinion. Prophets alone make doctrine.

The Strange World of Mormon Prophets

However, Mormon prophets have come up with pretty wacky ideas and practices. The list is long: Polyamory, polygamy, polyandry, banking scandals, institutional racism, the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The exposure of the much vaunted Book of Abraham – “written by [Abraham’s] own hand” according to Joseph Smith – as an Egyptian Book of Breathings circa 50BC to 50AD. The infamous forgery scandals that hoodwinked Gordon B Hinckley and led to the tragic Salt Lake City bombings of 1985.

Mormon prophets have increasingly proved a liability and it has been the church’s practice to bury their dead prophets’ ideas along with them. Mormons are used to explaining away the embarrassing statements and practices of past leaders, from the sexually predacious Joseph Smith and the monomaniacal Brigham Young, through the rabid dogmatism of Bruce R McConkie, the bogus claims of Paul H Dunn and his “Early Life and War Experiences,” to the inability of Gordon B Hinckley to stay away from TV cameras, opening his mouth only to change feet.

I want to point out two developments I consider significant in this regard with the publication of their 2013 edition of the Mormon scriptures. Mormon prophets are so wrong as to be a liability and Mormons now admit it, and the Mormon Church is looking to academics to do what, in a more innocent time, prophets once did.

Declaration 2

On June 8, 1978 a statement was issued from church headquarters declaring the long standing ban on men of African descent holding the Mormon priesthood lifted. This statement is found in all subsequent editions of the Doctrine and Covenants (D&C), along with the earlier declaration of 1890 abandoning, officially, the practice of polygamy.

What is effectively a colour bar has been a thorn in the side of the Mormon Church and stood for most of that church’s history. Historically, it has been founded on Mormon Scripture and teaching. Generations of Mormon leaders have developed and at length taught the reasons for the bar to black priesthood holders.

In the 2013 edition of the D&C, to the original declaration has been appended a preface purporting to explain the background to this development:

The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.

Gone is the, the elaborate story of war in heaven, less noble pre-mortals, the curse of a black skin, talk of the negro being a descendent of Cain and a representative of Satan on the earth, key elements of the Plan of Salvation. Worse, gone is the confidence in prophets as the church openly “admits” it has no idea why this teaching held sway for almost 150 years of its 180 year history. Where once any Aaronic priesthood holder (age 12-17) might have explained it now even prophets cannot.

This is nonsense, of course, and they know and understand full well the elaborate theological arguments for the bar. As you scan the faces of Mormon General Authorities on the stand at conference time you are looking at men who grew up being taught and went on to teach the Mormon mythology regarding ignoble premortal lives, the consequent “curse” of black skin and its resulting proscriptions. This is a public relations exercise designed to distance today’s church from its own history, rather like Nazi’s burning documents when it became clear the war wasn’t going their way.

What is significant is the unqualified admission that prophets at the head of God’s only true church cannot understand or explain Mormon doctrine. Further, Mormon Church history, which has always been in the hands of a fastidiously “record-keeping” Mormonism, can shed no light on the matter. It comes to something when feigning such ignorance is better than owning your own church’s history and teaching.

Mormons, it seems, cannot look to their prophets, nor can they rely on their own historical records to help them understand their own church and doctrine. Where, then, are they to look for guidance? If not to prophets, past or present, where are Mormons to look for revelation? That’s the next post.

Posted in Scripture Changes | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , | 8 Comments

Bobby speaking at the Apologetics in Manchester Event.

Posted on April 30, 2013 by

AIM

Hey all you may have seen that I was speaking at the Apologetics in Manchester Event recently, on the issue of reaching out to Mormons. For those that missed it and might have liked to have heard it please check out the audio below.

Also our very own Tony Brown is speaking there on the 11th May at 10am on Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you would like more information on this please let me know.

This was a particularly good day. After the event a few of us went out for lunch. Just minutes after we sat down two Mormon Missionaries walked in. We invited them to join us and had a great time. Funny how these things work out.

Dinner with Missionaries.

Posted in UK Partnerships for Christ, Witnessing to Mormons | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a comment

Teachings of the prophet Lorenzo Snow, Chapter 8, “Search Me, O God, and Know My Heart” By Gary Carter

Posted on April 27, 2013 by

Lorenzo Snow

Like in all theological writings, we can see how the life experiences and the culture that surrounds the author have influenced the writings themselves. John Calvin’s direct and systematic approach can be traced to the need for clarity as well as justification of thought in the Reformation. The German theologians of the nineteenth century are very inaccessible due to the academic style at the time. Lorenzo Snow’s life and experiences were forged in the great trek west and the trials and poverty that it entailed. It is also impossible to ignore the persecution that he endured whilst the LDS were still in the Midwest. This helps to explain the theme of this chapter and the one before, faithfulness in the midst of trial. There is content in this chapter that would seem to be orthodox within Christianity but the undercurrent from chapter 6, ‘becoming perfect before the Lord’, is still prevalent and it is this undercurrent we shall be exploring.

At this point, it is important to point out areas of agreement between the LDS and Christianity in this chapter before we distinguish the differences. On pages 121-122, Snow reflects of the prophets, in particular the character of the prophets. Moses is picked out by Snow as an example of particular note. Moses was a man who wrestled within himself before God and led the Israelites with great courage and conviction in the Exodus and risked his own well-being to save his people from destruction in Exodus 32. Jonah is also picked out as another example, a man who recognizes his own faults and does everything he can to rectify those mistakes. Nothing that Snow actually says in these texts are factually incorrect. To argue otherwise would be wrong. Snow is also correct to state on page 123 that we should be very self-aware and quick to repent of any flaw and sin, private and public. If we were to start arguing that the need for repentance is not necessary, it would be safe to say that we are not either in LDS territory or in Christian territory.

There are however some things that are troubling in these sections of text. When Snow is discussing the need for repentance, there is no mention of Jesus as part of the repentance. There is mention of the Holy Spirit but the emphasis is firmly on the one repenting not the one who has provided the salvation by way of repenting. This issue is the same in the section on the prophets. The emphasis is on the great works of Moses and Jonah, not on the patient, forgiving God who blessed them with those works and forgave them their sins. The emphasis is not on God. We can see this in LDS scriptures.

All victory and glory is brought to pass unto you through your diligence, faithfulness, and prayers of faith. (D&C 103:36)

 For even yet the kingdom is yours, and shall be forever, if you fall not from your steadfastness. Even so. Amen. (D&C 82:24)

These scriptures are further evidence that points towards a very human emphasis within Mormonism rather than an emphasis on God, a theme we have discussed in this review of Snow.

This leads us swiftly onto our next point of investigation, the question of being fit before God. Like most of this chapter, Snow begins on a theme that would not be out of place in orthodox Christianity. We all would like to think that if the Lord were to search us, as it says in the quotation from Psalm 139:23-24, we would like to think that God would be pleased. There is a certain logic to the case Snow argues for in relation to this quotation in that it is easier to honestly desire this in corporate prayer and penitence than it is individually as there is more accountability and visibility in corporate activity. It all sounds perfectly fine theologically to a point. It seems to veer off with the following quotation

‘Such persons…and to establish a character before God that could be relied upon in the hour of trial, and that would fit them to associate with holy beings and with the Father himself when they shall have passed into the spirit world.’

Snow has taken a very important principle, a reliable character, and turned it into a rather anthropocentric (human centred) idea. It is by God that we have a character that can be relied upon. It is by the Holy Spirit, the armour of God (Ephesians 6) that we can stand firm. If the history of the Israelites is anything to go by, the people of God do not have it within themselves to stand firm in the hour of trial. Not even David had a character that stood firm in time of trial. Snow, like the doctrines and teachings of Mormonism, emphasise the aspects of free will and the power of the human will to such a degree that humanity can make themselves perfect (for a more in depth investigation of this topic, please see the review of Chapter 6). Not only is this anathema to Christians, but also it does not fit with the patterns of the Bible as seen by the history of the Israelites. Only Jesus was a perfect human being, but that was due to his divinity. Mormonism of course teaches that man may become God (see chapter 5) but this is something that is blasphemy if there is one God.

This trend continues on page 123. Snow again takes a very key idea in repentance after being made aware of fault and turned it into an anthropocentric idea. When Snow writes that we should repent and try to make reparation, the statement is correct. To say however, that by doing so ‘we strengthen our own character, we advance our own cause, we fortify ourselves against temptation and in time, we shall have so far overcome as to astonish ourselves at the progress we have made in self-government, and improvement’ (italics added) is astonishing in its human-centered attitude. Just like we do not do anything to further God’s cause other than be his instruments (1 Corinthians 3), we cannot mould overcome without God and his work through the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). Not only can we see in this section that Snow is evidently a key player in the development of the Mormon theology of human self-advancement to godhood, but we can also see that Mormonism seemingly has twisted repentance into a rather one sided arrangement. We the sinners repent and we the sinner make the reparation. There is no mention of what Jesus did on the cross of how his death and resurrection is the one and only reparation humanity ever needs. This paragraph does sum up the fundamental differences between Mormonism and Christianity.

We can see this again on page 124 with the suggestion of elevation. Is it really possible to ‘elevate ourselves still higher in the righteousness of God?’ When we consider Romans 8:31-39, we can see that we can never be separated from the love of God and that no worldly or demonic power can ever change that. If that is the case, how can we possibly elevate ourselves before God if we are already the apples of his eye as his children?

In conclusion, by this point of the book, we can begin to see certain themes developing in Snow’s, and Mormon, thought. We can see that the fundamental starting points of Mormon theology often begin in orthodox Christian theology and are point that most Christians would strongly agree with. These thoughts then metamorphose however into anthropocentric ideas of attainable perfection and godhood. This chapter, like the chapters that proceed this, reveals that Snow is looking to our ‘perfection’ rather than to our service to our creating, sustaining, saving God and it is in this that we see the difference between Mormonism and Christianity.

Posted in Teachings of the Prophet Lorenzo Snow | Tagged , , , , , | 2 Comments

General Conference, April 2013, General Young Women Meeting Review, by Vicky Gilpin

Posted on April 15, 2013 by


Young Women Meeting

Your Holy Places, by Ann M Dibb.

Ann speaks to the women encouraging them to seek Holy places in their lives. Whether that be a physical place, ie, the temple, or a prayer room, or a moment in time where they recognise the spirits presence. This was an encouraging talk and scripturally there was nothing to disagree with, although I did notice a distinct lack of Jesus being mentioned! The women were admonished to be like Joseph smith in finding their Holy place, he found his sacred grove and even managed to have intimate times of prayer in his bedroom that he shared with his brothers. But where were the examples of Jesus Drawing away to pray alone? His 40 days in the wilderness? His intimate prayer in the garden? His life of intimacy with the Father? All of these examples were strangely missing.

When You Save a Girl, You Save Generations, By Mary N. Cook

Mary tells the story of a virtuous young girl called Kate, who after being brought up by devout LDS parents, lived exemplary, goes on to follow their example. Even in the face of trials, including the loss of her Father at 14 and then her Mother receiving a diagnosis of cancer just before she was due to go on mission.

Having had solid foundations from her family, and her faith and her family’s faith, Kate was able to make good decisions in the face of these trials and she is rightly commended for her good decisions. Avoiding the pitfall that hardship can bring, choosing to push further into her faith rather than let her troubles pull her down.

It’s all very admirable but, as I read Mary’s comments I am left wondering what Gods part was in all of this?

Mary’s story very much emphasises Kate and what she did and the choices she made. But why is the emphasis on Kate and her works, instead of on the Goodness of the Father? Surely it is God she has to thank for providing her with such a solid foundation in the first place? God, who provided her with Loving parents, who brought her up to love the Lord and be strong in faith. God, who saw her through the hardest times of trial. Who helped her to have the faith to keep going. Who put friends around her to strengthen and encourage her. Why is Mary telling us how wonderful Kate is, instead of praising God for giving her the strength, encouragement and provision to get through it all?

This is one of the key differences between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Biblical Christianity seeks to glorify God and never man. The praise should always be of God and not of man, of His works and not of our own. The Bible tells us to live lives that Glorify God and not ourselves, our motto should always be, ‘To God be the Glory.’

Galations 6:14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

 Isaiah 43:7

“Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I haveformed him; yea, I have made him.” (KJV)

We are created for His glory!

Be Not Moved, By Elaine S Dalton

The theme continues of standing in Holy places, Elaine admonishes the Women to,

“stand … in holy places, and be not moved.”to Stand firm. Be steadfast.2 “Stand for truth and righteousness.”3 Stand as a witness.4 Be a standard to the world. Stand in holy places.”

They are to do this by making right decisions and through remaining virtuous and sexually pure.
“Your choices now not only affect you, but they also affect others. They are of eternal significance. Be not moved!”

She goes on to say..

Your body is a temple. Why? Because it has the capacity to house not only your eternal spirit but also the eternal spirits of others who will come to the earth as part of your eternal family.

 Here Elaine is speaking of the LDS belief that worthy male Mormons can obtain Godhood, and that together with their worthy wives they will have spirit children, who will go on to receive body’s just as they did, on their own ‘ earth.’ I know Bobby has already addressed this issue in his general conference post so I won’t go into it too much I just wanted to point this out.

The theology that is being spoken out by the church is that of eternal progression, of men becoming Gods, and of God once being a man. I know that some LDS try to back away from this now and say that’s not what they believe, but that is what the LDS church clearly teaches from prophet to Young Women’s President.

Elaine goes on to tell the story of Isaac and Rebekah from Genesis.

I found this point interesting…

“Prior to her departure from her family, she was given a blessing, and the words are stirring to me, for she was promised that she would become “the mother of thousands of millions.”

The exact scripture says…

Genesis 24:60 (KJV)

60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

I can see from Elaine’s remarks of this being ‘stirring’ that she is most likely linking this blessing of Rebekah to the LDS belief of eternal progression. I imagine her to understand that Rebekah would be the Mother of thousands of Millions through becoming a goddess wife. However that is not the intended meaning of this blessing, in fact the blessing of Rebekah echo’s the blessing that was given to Abraham only two chapters earlier…

Genesis 22:15-18 (KJV)

15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Notice that both the blessing of Abraham and the blessing of Rebekah both state, “…and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies.”  Both blessings are one and the same. The blessings speak of physical and spiritual seed. The spiritual seed of Abraham are those that believe on Christ.

Galatians 3:7
Know you therefore that they who are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

We can make the bible fit in with our ideas or we can let the bible speak for itself. The Bible can easily be read with LDS tinted glasses. I challenge any LDS reader to take off those glasses and take a fresh look at the Bible.

As always I welcome your comments and will get back to you as soon as I can.

Posted in General Conference Reviews | Tagged , , , , , | 2 Comments

General Conference, April 2013 Sunday Afternoon Review, by Russ Bales and Jenna Wood

Posted on April 14, 2013 by

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland

A review of Elder Holland’s LDS General Conference speech titled “Lord, I Believe” on April 7, 2013, Salt Lake City, Utah

By Russ Bales, Evangelical Christian and Jenna Wood, Christian and former Mormon

 

Elder Holland opened his speech with the comment, “Honestly acknowledge your questions and your concerns, but first and forever fan the flame of your faith, because all things are possible to them that believe.”

Some questions immediately come to mind.

•    Believe in what? Will a man who calls himself a prophet of God proceed to the core of the gospel message which is belief and trust in Jesus and forgiveness of sins?

•    Or will his talk be designed to soothe the minds of those who are questioning their faith in the Mormon Church?

It was not unexpected nor surprising that the thrust of Holland’s speech focused on the latter. The Mormon Church is currently experiencing an exodus from its ranks unparalleled in the Church’s history since the Kirtland Bank failure. It naturally follows that an address to all Mormon believers would seek to reassure the faithful that all will be well if faithful Mormons will heed the counsel of the prophets.

Elder Marlin Jensen, a General Authority of the LDS Church and Executive Director of the Church History Department, was asked the question on January 31, 2012, “Did the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints know that members are ‘leaving in droves?’”

“We are aware,” he said according to a tape recording of his unscripted remarks. “And I’m speaking of the 15 men that are above me in the hierarchy of the church. They really do know and they really care,” Reuters article

Elder Holland encourages Mormons to “Stand strong until additional knowledge comes.” Holland is clearly acknowledging that many Mormons are starting to question the veracity of the claims of the LDS church. Holland is clearly admonishing the flock to stand unwavering during troubling times.

Holland states,

“Be candid about your questions as you need to be. But don’t let those questions stand in the way of faith working its miracle.”

Holland makes a sober point insofar that we all do well to exercise faith. It takes faith to believe in an unseen God. Our faith in God is bolstered by the veracity of biblical history. Christianity is a reasonable faith. It is reasonable to consider that an intelligent designer created everything that is.

Where these writers would diverge from Holland’s admonition to not allow nagging questions to get in the way of faith is when the Mormon church asks its adherents to ignore the mountain of evidence that goes against the claims of the LDS church. For example, the uniquely LDS scripture called The Book of Abraham has been examined by several renowned Egyptologists. (See the video documentary) The consensus is unanimous. It is a book that isn’t what it claims to be.

As another example, the history of the Church itself is becoming problematic for many Mormons. The LDS Church doesn’t make it readily known that its prophet, Joseph Smith, married at least 33 women. 11 of those women were already married to living husbands. Such facts should be considered and such facts reveal the LDS church’s claims to be extremely problematic.

One last example is the race issue in the Mormon Church. The Church banned blacks from full membership in its priesthood from 1830 to 1978. Such things should cause Mormons to question the claims of the LDS Church and in no way should an alleged prophet of God encourage them to, “…hold fast to what you already know and stand strong until additional knowledge comes” when in actuality the LDS Church isn’t providing that additional knowledge. They’re not providing a public response to those nagging questions.

The knowledge of LDS claims are on the table. All one has to do is simply use an internet search engine to examine LDS claims. LDS leaders aren’t answering. They’re leaving their flock without answers to these hard questions and all the while repeating the mantra: just have faith.

Determining truth is important. Vitally important. What we all want most, next to being loved, is truth. No one wants to be lied to by the auto mechanic. No one expects their religious leaders to cover up facts. The Mormon Church, however, is unfortunately adept at doing that.

Determining truth is as simple as opening God’s Word. When the apostle Paul preached about Jesus, the Bereans in the Book of Acts didn’t merely take Paul’s word for it. They compared what he said to that which has been previously revealed:

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Acts 17:11

Regarding truth, Dave Hunt of The Berean Call states:

Truth is independent of time, space, and matter, and never changes. It has no location in the physical universe; it exists in the nonphysical realm of the soul and spirit. The indisputable fact that the brain is not the mind, with which we understand truth, provides one of the simplest proofs that we are nonphysical and eternal beings living temporarily in physical bodies. This solemn fact raises a question that most do not like to face. Preferring to give their attention to pleasures and plans related to this temporal world of the five senses, that which is of paramount importance is put off to “a convenient season” (Acts 24:25), which never comes. Every person must answer the great question: Where will my soul and spirit (the real “I” that is my unique self) be when this temporary dwelling in which I have lived these few years lies “moulding in the grave?”

Members of the LDS religion are warned constantly that if something goes against the teachings of the LDS doctrines and Prophets, then it is a deception and of Satan. Remember that Satan can (and does indeed) use facts to deceive! Satan abuses the facts of what one believes, even partial truths, and then distorts the interpretation of those facts and truths to weave a deception. Holland’s use of Jesus’ own words to try and distort the truth an interpretation of what Jesus was actually saying when he said,

“If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”

Jesus uses this parable not to imply that our “faith of a mustard seed” can move mountains and uproot trees by faith. No one can do such things, no matter how great their faith. The key to understanding the passages is the nature of faith, which is a gift from God.

The power of faith reflects the omnipotent nature of the God who bestows faith on His own to make the point that little is much when it comes from God. The mustard seed in the parable grows to be a huge tree, representing the tiny beginnings of Christianity when just a few disciples began to preach and teach the gospel. Eventually the kingdom grew to huge proportions, encompassing the entire world and spreading over centuries.

Holland used this parable of Jesus to suggest that what Jesus actually meant was if one of little faith (faith in the LDS gospel, not in the Gospel of Jesus Christ) will at least trust in “The Church” their faith will grow.

Faith of the mustard seed can be applied to all those that are seeking for truth and bring the Truth of the true Church, His church that he started from tiny beginning of Christianity that grew from just a few disciples teaching his gospel to the entire world!

When Satan attempted to deceive Jesus he failed because Jesus would not be separated from the Father’s guidance, purpose and character. Jesus, couldn’t be fooled into thinking there was anything more worthy of His attention than staying in alignment with the Father. He had a relationship with the Father to the degree that they shared common purpose, will and character. He knew the Father. He knew Truth.

Jesus said, “I am THE TRUTH, the way and the life…” (John 14:6) and “you shall know (be intimate with) THE TRUTH and THE TRUTH shall make you free” (John 8:32).

As a person on Facebook wrote: “What Holland teaches is clear –when confronted with questions, the answer must not conflict with what you once believed to know, and if you are not satisfied with that that answer, keep trying till you do, and keep it on your shelf with all the rest of the ‘unknowns.’ I cannot subscribe to this method of determining truth.”

There are too many unknowns on that shelf for many Mormons these days. The shelf is getting heavy.

General conference talks appear more as pep talk designed to help people feel good and maintain their testimony of the Mormon Church than words from prophets regarding God’s salvation message and truth.

Posted in General Conference Reviews | Tagged , , , , , | Leave a comment