Comments on: Is Joseph Smith Worthy Of Worship? https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/ Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:42:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Len Hazell https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31885 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:03:01 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31885 Unfortunately thegardensofboxwoodmanor, Mormons are taught that when the the Bible and the Book of Mormon disagree, the BOM is the more reliable source of truth and to attribute such difference as exist between the two to mistranslations of the Bible and corruption over the ages.
For the TBM Mormon scripture trump everything else. And by the way the temeritous Joseph Smith claimed he is mentioned in prophecy in the bible several times, so the TBM would disagree with you there too.

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By: Len Hazell https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31884 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:52:34 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31884 If you read my reply, and if you sat back and looked objectively at the church doctrine and practice Ned, you would realise that you have indeed come to worship Joseph Smith, you may not call it worship, but you do, it is a fundamental part of Mormonism, that you have been tricked and cajoled into from the first moment you agreed to call yourself LDS.

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By: Bobby https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31882 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 08:50:02 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31882 Hey there Ned

As I said at the beginning of this article, Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith. My point is simply that if all of the points made about him in this talk are to be believed, (which of course I don’t) maybe they should, however in reality I am of course not suggesting you guys worship him, but rather making the point that the things said about Joseph are way more than ever should be said of a man.

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By: Ned Scarisbrick https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31880 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 05:50:04 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31880 I was reluctant to post a reply given the hyperbole that is common among these types of posts but I just can’t let this one go. You just went to far and over the top. You know that we DON’T even in the smallest degree view Joseph Smith as someone worthy of worship. Respect, honor, and the like sure but not worship. There is no one between us and the Savior when it comes to our salvation. There is no Church, prophet, apostle or book that will stand for us or against us at the last day. It is just you and me and Jesus Christ our Lord.

I could write a lengthy reply to each item if you would like but this is your blog and not mine so I respect it’s forum. Just wanted to make the basic point crystal clear.

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By: thegardensofboxwoodmanor https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31872 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 00:34:41 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31872 Thank you for this fine post. The LDS is very contradictory within itself with different leaders, writings, etc. There is much confusion as to what and who to believe. If only, they could and would read the Bible. The sadness is that REAL Christ is not in the Mormon’s life. We Christians know that the Bible is the only foundation for our belief in Christ; Joseph Smith is not in the Bible. Take away Joseph Smith and there is no LDS.

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By: thegardensofboxwoodmanor https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31871 Mon, 18 Jan 2016 00:23:23 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31871 Excellent reply.

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By: sandra walker https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31869 Sun, 17 Jan 2016 22:00:53 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31869 I once ‘knew’ Joseph was a prophet of God. That’s what I was taught by my honorable parents who would have never intentionally led me astray. By God’s mercy alone I have learned and found that Joseph was a liar and a very bad man. When I read Gal 1:8-10 I am convinced. Beyond that, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to teach His children after He ascended. I am instructed in the NT to search out the truth of all things, 1 Thess 5. Why does the LDS church discourage their people to only study what they say? That is not Biblical. Of what are they afraid?

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By: lifeafterministry https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31867 Sun, 17 Jan 2016 21:01:39 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31867 Reblogged this on Life After Ministry and commented:
This is a must read! Great insight on how Mormons really do worship Joseph Smith. Pray for them won’t you? With Love in Christ; Michelle 1 Cor 1:18

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By: Len Hazell https://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2016/01/16/is-joseph-smith-worthy-of-worship/#comment-31851 Sat, 16 Jan 2016 13:46:03 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=2693#comment-31851 Is Joseph Smith Worthy Of Worship?
A fascinating question and one that is not so simple as it appears on first reading.

The question hinges on the definition of the words Worthy and Worship in the theological context.

Since both words actually have the same etymological root it becomes doubly complex.

To be worthy of course means to have worth, that is to say value and significance from the point of view of the first person interlocutor;
Obviously it is therefore not an objective term.
For example a crucifix has great theological worth to a Roman Catholic but is merely an anthropological curiosity to a follower of Zoroastrian creeds.
Jesus has massive theological worth to an Anglican, has far less to a Unitarian, less still to a Muslim and none whatsoever to a Jew.

Therefore since the subject of the Question is Joseph Smith, we must first revise and clarify the question to fit the context of the discussion

Does Joseph Smith in the context of the average lay Mormon have significant theological value requiring Worship?

Now we come to the word Worship, which again has the same etymological root “Worth”
To worship is to acknowledge the Necessary Worth, Value and Significance of an abstract concept, place, person or object.
In other words to worship is to give earned or rightful tribute in exchange for services rendered and the continuation of those services.
So we are now faced with:

Does Joseph Smith in the context of the average lay Mormon have significant theological value requiring rightful tribute in exchange for services rendered and the continuation of those services?

Now as stated it is claimed by many if not all Mormons that they DO NOT worship Joseph Smith, they honour him.
Muslims say much the same about the prophet Mohamed and Zoroastrians claim the same about the prophet Zarathustra.
So what is the difference between giving honour to and worshiping?
To give honour to an abstract concept, place, person or object is to acknowledge it’s Necessary Worth, Value and Significance by paying tribute.
To honour and to worship are true synonyms, Honour originating in Latin and Worship from Celtic Saxony, the meaning is exactly the same.
It is a pointless differentiation, since all mentions of Joseph Smith in Mormon scrip, hymns and prayers do him honour or worship for his act of founding the LDS and restoring the gospel.
What most Mormons mean when they say they do not worship Joseph Smith is that they do not PRAY to him, either as a deity or as an intercessor.
However they do not pray to Jesus either, they pray in his name, neither do they pray to Heavenly mother but they do her honour.
Joseph we are told WILL be on the panel of three who will judge the quick and the dead come Parousia, sitting on the left hand of heavenly father (heavenly mother I’m afraid is not afforded this honour, she is presumably too busy having spirit children and backing celestial cookies.)
So we have Joseph Smith being held on a level slightly below Jesus, but higher than heavenly Mother.

Now ask a Mormon do they worship Jesus Christ and they will answer yes, definitely, however they do not worship Joseph, they honour him, to this I cry weasel words.

But is Joseph deserving of the honour given to him by LDS members?
Well if Joseph was the clean cut, all caring, innocent, called by the Lord to become a prophet, who worked tirelessly and kept the gospel laws until his untimely death , that is taught about in Sundays schools in Branches, wards and stakes all over the world, than yes maybe they would have a case for saying so, yes.
However, the truth is he was not. As the church leaders are fond of saying today Joseph was just a man, like any other, he was not perfect, he made mistakes, like everyone else.
What they are not so fond of saying are that the mistakes he made were doozies!
Adultery, not keeping the word of wisdom, hebephilia, occultism, fortune telling, cowardice, lying, mistranslating, possessing black magical artefacts, attempted murder, insurrection, vandalism, incitement to riot, banking fraud, imposture, desertion, public nuisance, and on and on and on goes the list.

Given the true fact even the most forgiving of TBMs must surely concede that Joseph, though the acknowledge founder of the restored gospel, did not and does not have the right to claim worship or honour for the life he otherwise lived and must surely at best be seen only as a fallen prophet.

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