This is a funny and light hearted look at what might happen if Mormons ditched the notion of “Milk Before Meat” in their discussions, worth a watch.
Has anyone ever had a discussion like this with a missionary?
This is a funny and light hearted look at what might happen if Mormons ditched the notion of “Milk Before Meat” in their discussions, worth a watch.
Has anyone ever had a discussion like this with a missionary?
That is just really low class. It’s not a parody or even satire. It’s just plain low class. What would you think if someone did this about protestants? You are shooting yourselves in the foot with this type of material.
-Ned
I’m not too touchy on this type of thing but then that’s me.
I do agree that this will not do much to impress Mormons, however that was not my goal, this video makes an excellent point.
An excellent point? How can a cheap shot make a excellent point? Speculation, distortion and falsehoods portrayed as the real teachings of the Church. I thought class, kindness and gentle persuasion made excellent points.
What were the falsehoods? I appreciate the presentation would not be to your taste but this seems to represent the teachings of Mormon leaders (not apologists) pretty well.
A correct point is not based upon whether people like it.
Here’s the point. If I collected clips from Kenneth Copeland, John Hagee and a dozen other Christian authorities on the real teachings of Christianity I could weave a tapestry of real deception and call it the truth because I have their statements on all the issues to back up my claims. Is that how we want to conduct ourselves in proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ? I would never do that. When someone informs me that I’m mistaken about anything I’m teaching on what some one (group, church, organization, etc.) else believes I immediately apologize and do all I can to correct the error and not teach that again.
Example…
“There is no Mormon doctrine that says we will become ‘gods of our own planets.’ A search of LDS.org, which includes all of the church lesson manuals, all talks given in church conferences, and all magazines published by the LDS church shows that there are no instances—zero—where it is taught that we will be ‘gods of our own planets.'” (“Gods of their own planets?”, MormonVoices.org)
Now, what about leader “X” who said that as exalted beings we do so and so? Have there been leaders who have alluded to what life will be like in the eternities? Sure. Lot’s of them but to put forth ideas, possibilities and conjecture as Church doctrine is just plain disingenuous to say the least. I hold this blog to a higher standard.
You know there’s just something not honest about the not getting your own planet to be a god. First the getting your own planet is unnecessary to the Mormon doctrine of eternal progression. Before you hide behind your search of LDS.org, it has only been this year that a search of the website for references to polyandry produced a result. I think we can all agree that this is a topic that the Church wasn’t interested in discussing and so it didn’t appear. That a search item does not turn up a result is no evidence at all.
But the idea of being a god is so pervasive in Mormonism, not just the largest Mormon sect, it must have come from somewhere. Unlike others who may post here I have been through the Mormon temple, though others may have watched online. It is crystal clear that the purpose of the temple ceremony is to unite a man to his wives so that they will progress as a group to create and populate worlds. The Mormon god does this and his Satan does to these worlds what has been done on others. Faithful Mormons will do the same in their celestial future.
I am 48 years old and attended church my whole life until 2 years ago. To say that Mormons don’t have this as a Doctrine because it doesn’t come up on a web search or appear in current correlated materials is ludicrous. It denies the generations of teachings by great and small in the LDS church. To say it isn’t believed is absurd in the extreme. Account for where we are today with this doctrine with where we have come from. An honest answer will acknowledge eternal progression and population of worlds has been taught and believed. That’s why it’s such a big deal and we are taking about it. An honest answer will find it’s root in reality, not wishful thinking and sham apologetics.
Hi there Ned
There has been a few responses but I just wanted to share some thoughts.
I appreciate you do not like this video, it took a lot of thinking before I decided to share it as I knew this response would come from some LDS people. I decided to share it because of the point it makes. I think it is more offensive that a group claiming to be Christian sends Missionaries knocking on doors all around the world without explaining the key beliefs they hold that will be most troubling to Christians, and most strange to non Christians. This issue I would say must be the primary reason for the fact that there are 15 million members of your church, and 5-6 million that are active.
This has no comparison in evangelical Christianity, there is no milk before meat, there is no holding back of our beliefs until conversion, no restriction of access to certain church buildings until a year of membership and so on.
Again I know that apologetics types like yourself hide behind the idea that many Mormon beliefs that have been held and taught since the beginning are not doctrine, but this does not hold water. This video represents just fine what Mormons believe, not what Mormon apologists hold as doctrine. Since ultimately this site exists to reach out to Mormons as a whole I have no problem with this video.
The problem of your position in raising wrong beliefs held by Christians over the years is that my authority is the Bible, not Christian leaders. In the LDS Church you have Prophets and Apostles (who are also Prophets) coming out with all sorts of stuff. The pedestal they are placed on in your organization is the reason why they keep being quoted again and again.
I do on the other hand appreciate your comment about the standard of this blog and I think that’s a compliment as well as a challenge (I will take it that way anyway) this is not the start of things to come on this blog, but as I said I just thought that this said something that was worth saying.
I saw on a Mormon discussion board once someone saying, I don’t believe I will get a planet, I believe I will have a kingdom (meaning lots of planets) this is an interesting area that I think I will write something on soon.
Thanks Bobby,
I appreiacate your reply. As an apoligist I deal in and out of the Church with what many people who believe folklore, tradition and what brother so and so said is the doctrine of the Church. I don’t think that you and I are that far apart.
Actually it does not.
First of all, Mormons believe that everyone who came/comes to earth will become a God/Goddess. However, not everyone will be able to create their own worlds.
Second, they are allowed to shop, and work on Sundays. However, this must be done only if necessary. (They are not controlled you know.)
Third, “Holy underwear,” is given to those who have taken out their endowments. This does not mean that they have to wear it all the time, 24 hours a day. (Have you ever seen a Mormon wearing a bathing suit?)
Fourth, they believe they are the true church, like any other church. They believe that every Christian Church has some truth in them.
Fifth, there are no secret signs and symbols and tokens, in which a person must know/have in order to go to heaven.
Sixth, they believe in three glories, Celestial, Telestial, and Terrestrial, as well as an outer darkness. The three glories are different levels in heaven, and in order to obtain the highest glory certain things have to have been accomplished. (For example, Marriage (must be sealed), and baptism (with the correct priesthood).And when all is said and done, endure to the end). The outer darkness is hell.
Seventh: they believe that there is no actual hell or heaven, but rather the person feels happy or guilty.
Eight: they believe that those who were not able to be baptised (into the true church), will be able to have their work done on the earth. This is performed in the temple. (For example: baptisms for the dead. The dead are not actually baptised, but rather a person is baptised in behalf of the deceased. Once the ordinances that they did not have the opportunity to do are done, the deceased person then has the option of accepting, or rejecting the ordinances.)
Ninth: they do believe that God was a mortal at one point and time. This makes sense. They believe that we mortals are Gods sons and Daughters. When a married couple has children, do not the children grow up, and become adults? Does not a fawn grow up into a buck or Doe (depending on the gender)? Can’t the children of God become Gods and Goddesses too? I mean, it’s not rocket science. You can’t always be a child; you have to grow up someday.
Tenth: missionaries do not go about teaching in that manner. They do not boast, nor do they bribe people to join their church. They explain things so that the investigator may understand what they are teaching.
Eleventh: Mormons are allowed to watch rated R movies. There is no rule set for movies. In fact, lots of Mormons do watch rated R movies. However, their church leaders encourage them to choose what they will watch carefully. It’s their decision.
Twelfth: there are a lot’s of Mormons that dress immodestly. Yes their church leaders teach them that they must dress modestly, but it is up to the individual.
Thirteenth: Mormons are allowed to question their leaders. If they did not, then everyone would be like a zombie. In fact, it’s encouraged to question them so as to gain a better understanding, and to make sure that everyone is on the right track. (For example: Many people questioned the church on why women were not allowed to hold the priesthood. This was a common question, and so the Church leaders felt they needed to address this situation. They explained the women’s roles were different to those of the men’s. They even wrote a document called, “THE FAMILY A PROCLAMATION TO THE WORLD”) there have been other numerous examples too, on different questions.
Fourteenth: It is up to the individual to decide if they want to pay tithing; it is not forced upon them. If they desire to obtain the highest glory, then they must earnestly try their best at being a full tithe payer. We are human, no one is perfect, but that’s the gaol isn’t it, to strive to be perfect.
Fifteenth: Some of what happens in the temple is talked about openly (baptisms for the dead, confirmations, sealing etc.… Endowments, however, are regarded as something really sacred. Only those who are ready to know about them are taught about them.) This does not mean that non-members are not allowed to go into the temples under any circumstances. They are allowed to go through the temple if it has not yet been dedicated. If you have ever been through the temple, then you would know that nothing is secret, but all is sacred. This video make Mormons look like the Aztec’s, and they are not.
These are some of the points in the video that where misrepresented/misinterpreted by the creator. If you truly desire to know what Mormons believe, then go the source. Visit their websites, listen to their general conference talks, attend their church meetings, take the missionary discussions, read the book of Mormon, join in with their activities (such as youth, cubs, scouts, activity day girls (sort of like brownies), firesides, potlucks, and numerous other activates.) But do not go to sources that accuse, or persecute them. And trust me; they are not like that at all. (Well some might be a little weird. But hey, they are only human.) Also, if you want to know briefly what they believe then read their “Articles of Faith.” Mathew 5:48 in the King James Bible states, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect.” 3 Nephi 12:48 in the Book of Mormon states, “Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your father who is in heaven is perfect.”
Hi there thanks for the comment.
Im gonna go through your points one by one,
1, This is the first I have heard of this, do you have anything in your own materials to support this? Here is what some of your leaders have taught.
“We talk a great deal about our religion… It is the only system of religion known in heaven or on earth that can exalt a man to the Godhead, and this it will do to all those who embrace its laws and faithfully observe its precepts. This thought gives joy and delight to the reflecting mind, for, as has been observed, man possesses the germ of all the attributes and power that are possessed by God his heavenly Father” (Brigham Young, October 6, 1863, Journal of Discourses 10:251).
“There are a few individuals in this dispensation who will inherit celestial glory, and a few in other dispensations; but before they receive their exaltation they will have to pass through and submit to whatever dispensation God may decree. But for all this they will receive their reward-they will become Gods, they will inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities and powers through the endless ages of eternity, and to their increase there will be no end, and the heart of man has never conceived of the glory that is in store for the sons and daughters of God who keep the celestial law. (Wilford Woodruff, June 27, 1875, Journal of Discourses 18:39).
“Joseph Smith taught a plurality of gods, and that man by obeying the commandments of God and keeping the whole law will eventually reach the power and exaltation by which he also will become a god” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:98).
It sounds to me like Mormon leaders have taught that people become gods by obedience, rather than all become gods.
2, This is of course correct, however depending on how “Mormon” your local neighborhood is, will dictate the social stigma that may follow.
3, Yes there are very rare exceptions, such as bathing and sex. However the video does not say it must be worn 24 hours a day so lets keep with what it says shall we.
4, ok, this is the stance today, but earlier Mormon leaders….
“Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity” (Brigham Young, July 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses, 10:230).
5, Really?
“Let me give you a definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 416. See also Ensign, “The Doctrine of Temple Work,” October 2003, p. 60 and Endowed from on High: Temple Preparation Seminar Teacher’s Manual, p. 2).
“To enter the highest of these degrees in the celestial kingdom is to be exalted in the kingdom of God. Such exaltation comes to those who receive the higher ordinances of the Church, such as the temple endowment, and afterwards are sealed in marriage for time and eternity, whether on earth or in the hereafter” (John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 201).
To say that what goes on in the endowment is not secret signs and tokens is really just playing at dishonest nitpicking with terms, unless of course you would like to clearly explain them showing that they are not secret.
6, ok
7, Really?
“O the greatness of the mercy of our God, the Holy One of Israel! For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment” (The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 9:19).
I can go on a lot more on this if you like.
8, ok but i dont think the video really goes against this.
9, This area is massive and takes a lot of assumptions that the Bible does not make to get there. Maybe we could do this one on its own sometime.
10, it varies from case to case but of course this video is exaggerated to get peoples attention
11, But Mormon missionaries? Remember who is speaking here.
12, ok, but i think again it would be case by case depending on this bishop how this might go.
13, Apart from the many that have been excommunicated for doing it publically of course.
14, So unless you want to go to the celestial glory, you dont have to tithe, and according to the D&C of you dont want to burn
64:23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.
15, This whole sacred but not secret thing does not really work with anyone who spends a second or two thinking about it, Mormons need to realise this.
This video is of course not how any LDS missionary would put it, but it is so much more honest and clear than they would ever be to. To be fair I would recommend people watch this video and go to lds.org.
Okay, Bobby, what I meant by everyone becoming a God/Goddess, is that everyone will be resurrected into a perfect body. Everyone will be able to do things that we, as mortals, cannot do. Like defying gravity, (standing in the air), and living forever.
I think thats a very loose definition of becoming a god that is not even supported by your leaders, however you are of course free to see it that way and thanks for explaining.
You wrote, “13, Apart from the many that have been excommunicated for doing it publically of course.” Okay, so are there any examples?
Hi Bobby,
You wrote:
5, Really?
“Let me give you a definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hellâ (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 416. See also Ensign, âThe Doctrine of Temple Work,â October 2003, p. 60 and Endowed from on High: Temple Preparation Seminar Teacherâs Manual, p. 2).
“To enter the highest of these degrees in the celestial kingdom is to be exalted in the kingdom of God. Such exaltation comes to those who receive the higher ordinances of the Church, such as the temple endowment, and afterwards are sealed in marriage for time and eternity, whether on earth or in the hereafterâ (John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 201).
To say that what goes on in the endowment is not secret signs and tokens is really just playing at dishonest nitpicking with terms, unless of course you would like to clearly explain them showing that they are not secret.
Response:
Does the whole world know of your past? Does the public know all your secrets? Does the world know all your deeds, both good and bad? Are there a few people who are close to you that you share some of your personal experiences with?
You wrote:
7, Really?
“O the greatness of the mercy of our God, the Holy One of Israel! For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless tormentâ (The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 9:19).
I can go on a lot more on this if you like.
Response:
If by hell you mean, living out of the presence of God, and suffering all kinds of misery, remorse and guilt. Then yes, hell would be a place. The Mormons, call that place, outer darkness.
You wrote:
14, So unless you want to go to the celestial glory, you dont have to tithe, and according to the D&C of you dont want to burn.
Response:
Do you always tell the truth?
I will come back to you when you have reasonable answers to my points, something you seem to be fairly unable to give this far.
Okay Bobby,
I know that my responses to your points are not ideal. And for that I apologize. But did you answer those questions in your mind?
The purposes of my questions were to try and get you to think of the similarities between the purposes of those ordinances and my questions.
You say that endowments are secret, rather than sacred. Now liken your own personal experiences to endowments. Would you want people (who are not very close), to know everything about you? I know I wouldn’t. You might call this personal or private, but it is also sacred. It’s sacred because it’s personal. Secrets, personal experiences, and ordinances are meant to be shared, but not with the world.
Now my other response was to the tithes. Liken telling the truth to paying tithes. For some people it is easier than it is for others. We cannot always tell the truth, and it is the same with tithing. But we strive to do so.
I am so sorry if my responses were not the best, please accept my apologies.
Hi there Brenkman, thanks a lot for that response, I appreciate your honesty and openness.
I respect and understand why LDS people do not talk about the endowment, however my issue is more with the validity of that ceremony. It can’t be a coincidence that it was a matter of weeks after Joseph Smith became a freemason that this was brought into the LDS church, it is merely a copy of another movements ceremony, various things that go on in the temple can be found to have their origins there. For more on this please go here
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm
http://mit.irr.org/occultic-and-masonic-influence-in-early-mormonism
I understand that you are coming here to answer challenges to your faith and you are very welcome here. Please take some time to look at these links I have provided and other articles, your comments are always welcome.
Being a Freemason and a member of the Church I can say from personal knowledge that the Sandra Tanner and Mormons in transition links are less than ideal. If I may here is a more accurate and less skewed link…
http://www.mormonismi.net/pdf/homer1994.pdf
It is over thirty pages long with another fifteen or so pages of footnotes. If you like to contact me direct I am willing to so do.
The masonic symbolic teaching system like the temple endowment is meant to represent principles and concepts. Those who take such symbols literal will miss the purpose for which they were intended.
-Ned
Are there any inaccuracies in particular that stand out on the Tanners article Ned?
I wonder if the LDS church will add an article on this subject to the series it has been releasing recently, it must be a serious minority of members that are aware of this link, wouldn’t you say?
I don’t see any blatant errors in the Tanners work but it’s skewed like a political ad. Designed to promote an agenda with limited information. Not a forth right approach in my view.
Wow that surprises me on the lack of errors, your views on their agenda does not though, thanks for the response.
brenkmanr654
December 5, 2014 • 7:44 pm
You wrote, “13, Apart from the many that have been excommunicated for doing it publically of course.” Okay, so are there any examples?
Off the top of my head here are a few
Oliver Cowdery excommunicated for disagreeing with the Prophet
Martin Harris excommunicated for calling the Prophet a fraudster
David Whitmer excommunicated for “dissention” (disagreeing with the prophet)
Jacob Whitmer excommunicated for “dissention”
John Whitmer excommunicated for “dissention”
Orson Pratt, Jr., first son Apostle Orson Pratt “Discenter”
George D. Watt, secretary to Brigham Young “dissenter”
Lavina Fielding Anderson, spreading incompatible doctrine
Ed Decker, spreading incompatible doctrine
Sonia Johnson, spreading feminist incompatible doctrine
Kate Kelly, spreading feminist incompatible doctrine
Ogden Kraut, spreading incompatible doctrine
David Charles Manners spreading incompatible doctrine
Teresa Nielsen Hayden, spreading incompatible doctrine
D. Michael Quinn, LDS historian promting none faith promoting history
Denver Snuffer, spreading incompatible doctrine
Simon Southerton, spreading incompatible doctrine
Paul Toscano, spreading incompatible doctrine.
Lynne Kanavel Whitesides spreading incompatible doctrine
Avraham Gileadi spreading incompatible doctrine
Paul Toscano spreading incompatible doctrine
Maxine Hanks spreading incompatible doctrine
Lavina Fielding Anderson spreading incompatible doctrine
In what manner were they excommunicated? How publicly was it done?
“In what manner were they excommunicated? How publicly was it done?”
Excommunication in the LDS has always been a matter of public record, at one time up until the early 1960’s “the Deseret News.” published on its front page “excommunication list ” in order to warn members in good standing of their neighbors transgressions, they not only announced the full names of those excommunicated, but the reasons for their expulsion and thus enable shunning of those who might damage testimony and shame them into repentance.
In the cases of the September six it was international news as was the case with Kate Kelly.
Who announced it publicly? Who went to the public to have it known to the world?
Okay, you are not reading replies given to you, you are just trotting out provocative, or nonsensical counter posts. I believe the term for this is trolling and I cannot be bothered with it.
Okay, so I understand that in the 1960’s that it was the church who publicly announced it. And I understand that some were announced on the international news. And perhaps my question was not clear.
I would like to know (Now days) who went/goes to the public, to have it announced?
Was it the excommunicated person? Was it the Church? Or was it a friend or relative of the excommunicated person? Because it sounds as though Kate Kelly was excommunicated in private, but that she went and told the media.
You are wrong
SALT LAKE CITY (RNS) A panel of Mormon judges announced the results of the disciplinary hearing on Monday (June 23 2014).
The group publicly announced the excommunication in a portion of the private email initially sent to Ms Kelly by e mail and certified post to reporters.
“The Church’s response to this situation is in the letter that was sent to Sister Kelly, which explained the decision (excommunication) and the reason for it,…since Ordain Women has chosen to publish only selected excerpts with their interpretation, we suggest that Sister Kelly make the full letter available in the interests of transparency.”
@Ned
Very much depends if you were a York rite or Scottish Rite Freemason as to how far the literalism is generally accepted by the post profane candidate.
It also depends on what degree you had attained in either rite.
Too much protesting there Ned. Some if that is right from the missionary lessons I taught in the mid to later ’80s.
The church embraced in a way the satirical play “The Book of Mormon”. Did you laugh with that or protest it?
“In what manner were they excommunicated? How publicly was it done?”
Excommunication in the LDS has always been a matter of public record, at one time up until the early 1960’s “the Deseret News.” published on its front page “excommunication list ” in order to warn members in good standing of their neighbors transgressions, they not only announced the full names of those excommunicated, but the reasons for their expulsion and thus enable shunning of those who might damage testimony and shame them into repentance.
In the cases of the September six it was international news as was the case with Kate Kelly.
You are wrong
SALT LAKE CITY (RNS) A panel of Mormon judges announced the results of the disciplinary hearing on Monday (June 23 2014).
The group publicly announced the excommunication in a portion of the private email initially sent to Ms Kelly by e mail and certified post to reporters.
“The Church’s response to this situation is in the letter that was sent to Sister Kelly, which explained the decision (excommunication) and the reason for it,…since Ordain Women has chosen to publish only selected excerpts with their interpretation, we suggest that Sister Kelly make the full letter available in the interests of transparency.”
Wrong? About what? How does the issue with Kate Kelly have anything to do with this thread?
-Ned
Wasn’t talking to you Ned, that answer was to a post by brenkmanr654 the comments directed to you had @Ned prefixing them.
“Man is a god in embryo and has in him the seeds of godhood, and he can, if he will, rise to great heights.” – Spencer W. Kimball, LDS Apostle (1895–1985)
“Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves.” – Joseph F. Smith, LDS Apostle (1838–1918)
“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” – Lorenzo Snow, LDS Apostle (1814–1901)
All of these Apostles went on to become prophet and never recanted this doctrine.
“The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven.
Brigham Young PROPHET Journal of Discourses:August 8, 1852, Journal of Discourses 3:93
The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.”
The Prophet Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 11:269 (Aug. 19, 1866)
“Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.” – D&C 132:20
Holy Scripture Ned
There is NOTHING in this video that has not been taught, published and accepted at one time or another by THE LIVING PROPHETS of the LDS church.
You sir are mistaken!
So, for hundreds of years it was believed that one could not be resurrected if your body was not whole. Thus being drawn and quartered along with being beheaded was thought to be eternal punishment. The Masonic penalties were used in like manner meaning. My word is so trustworthy that not only would I rather be killed in a gruesome manner before betraying a trust I would also rather loose any possibility of being resurrected. While this was a common teaching in the protestant church’s would you consider it a underhanded attempt to misrepresent the teachings of the Christian faith? I know I would if I were in your shoes.
So let me get this right, Mormons on the one hand have living prophets, which is what makes them different to all the other churches, and those living prophets give continuous DIVINE revelation, to restore the true Gospel in these Latter Days, BUT now you are telling me we are to believe all those living prophets GOT IT WRONG? But Pointing out that they got it wrong is an underhanded misrepresentation? Does it not rather mean they were well meaning but ultimately false prophets because modern prophets disagree with them?
Which prophets are right and which are wrong? Which are true and which are false?
I’m confused, were they true living prophets or not? If so HOW did they get it wrong?
If they got it wrong on this what else did they get it wrong about? What did they get it right about?
When they got it wrong and people prayed for and got a prompting of the spirit to know if the prophets were right and they got confirmation did they get it wrong too?
Does this mean promptings of the spirit can be wrong too?
I’m sorry but this makes no sense within the context of the LDS’ own doctrine that the prophet(s) will never lead the people astray, that the prophets pass on revelation from God AND THAT THE D&C IS SCRIPTURE.
Henry…sounds like you are really angry buddy. Were not on the same page here. All I’m asking for is basic respect. The same respect I show this blog. You don’t have to agree with the teachings of the Church or my views. The video was a cheap shot. I don’t do cheap shots. I offer genuine respect for others and their views. I expect the same in return. Perhaps we should talk at some point.
Seems you are moving in to stage two of the Mormon apologists standard technique Ned, don’t answer the points raised, go for the ad hominem attack.
Ask for respect all you like, sorry “buddy” respect must be earned before it is given, might be worth your remembering that.
I don’t know what I said to offend you. I thought this whole conversation was about the cartoon video. Nothing else. If you feel that I dismissed your concerns I’m more than willing to answer each and every question you have in a patient and kind manner. We can do this on the blog with the permssion of those who own the blog or by e mail direct. I give Bobby permission to give you my personal e mail if this way you would like to handle it.
I strive to treat everyone with the same respect and I apologize if I have offened you.
However if you want to be technical the word “Planet” is not used BUT
We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.
The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48:
When the servants of God and their wives go to heaven there is an eternal union, and they will multiply and replenish the world to which they are going.
Journal of Discourses, Vol.2, p.85 – p.86, Orson Hyde, October 6, 1854:
these are just a couple of examples are we really to believe that use of the word WORLD is NOT to be taken as a simile for the word PLANET?
I don;t know a lot of Morman’s, but I know that God created ONE man and ONE woman, not one man and many woman. Hence any religion preaching that men are allowed more then one wife, is NO from God and I don’t even read about them! My point of view, and I’m sticking to it! smile
That is a validated point. But if God commanded that we should practice polygamy, would you then change your mind? Or would you still hold strong to what you believe?
Another point: Mormons don’t practice polygamy at the present time, but they do believe in it. For example: If a man is sealed in the temple to his wife, and she dies he can re-marry. They then have the choice whether or not to be sealed together. If they are sealed together, then it is polygamy. And women are only allowed to be sealed to one spouse.
Did the video say Mormons currently practice polygamy?
No Bobby it did not mention polygamy, but I was commenting on Simunye’s comment.
No problem my apologies
No problem.
So how would God “commanded that we should practice polygamy”
Mormon teaching is that if such a command is given we should pray about it and wait for a prompting of the spirit as to the truth of it, the test then is to see if the revelation is in harmony with the scriptures.
Now if this possible command comes how do we do that, because D&C says polygamy is permitted, the Book of Mormon says it is not, this means what ever answer you get by prompting of the holy ghost it cannot be in harmony with the scriptures because the scriptures are not in harmony with one another.
Does one scripture override another, in that case which is more divine than which other?
On the point of Post-mortal polygamy, D&C says that you must have the permission of a first wife in order to be sealed to a second spouse, how is this possible when the first wife is deceased?
Does this mean in the after life a man can have as many wives as he likes regardless of the wishes of his first wife? Do women in heaven have no say in their marital status?