I will number my points just so I hopefully wont miss anything and it will make it easier for you (and me later) to keep track.

1) I don’t think there is any reason to think that we will not interact with others in heaven, however I think that we will be so caught up in the Majesty and Glory of God that the intimate relationships we held on earth will no longer matter. Marriage is a foreshadow of our eternal relationship with Christ, thus the church is often referred to as the “Bride of Christ”. We were created primarily for God. In eternity we will live in the fullness of this, I think when we see Him in His glory for all that it is we will have little interest in anything else, certainly not maintaining a marriage or ruling over our own kingdom (I know this view varies).

The Apostle Paul shows this heart in Philippians 1

21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Unlike Mormon missionaries, I don’t believe for a second that Paul went around telling people “you can be with your family forever” in his proselyting, he knew of something much better and that was what His desire was for His eternity.

2) Its not just me that says this:

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Yet you see John 17:22 as saying otherwise.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I think its the goal of all good bible interpretation to interpret scripture with scripture. As it seems at least at first glance that we have a contradiction there doesn’t it?

I think rather than me simply go with the verse I like and you go with the one you like we need to look at what is going on here. In verse 5 we see this:

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

We see that this glory is nothing that Christ did not have before. As God Jesus was glorious, but as Philippians 2:5-8 shows, he stepped down from that position in becoming a man. So the question still remains what does it mean for Him to give us this glory? Does it mean that we all become worshipped for eternity? As that is what it would have to mean if we took this totally literally. Christ would cease to be anything unique and we would all be the same as Him, however in total context this is not what the Bible is saying, we see in Revelation 7:9-10 this:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

I think this idea of us receiving glory is rather us sharing in His glory. The glory never stops being His and we share in it insomuch that we can enjoy it forever, drawing glory to Christ. We do not have the glory ourselves but rather we reflect His.

We see this in John 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

We share in His glory, because only He deserves to have it, we deserve death and punishment, but by the grace of Christ we get to enjoy Him for eternity.

Here is eternal marriage.

6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,

9 And the angel said[a] to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

To believe that we receive glory in the way that Christ does, completely misses it. It makes Christ just another spirit child of our heavenly parents going ahead of us to show how great we can be. Thus glorifying man. True Christianity is about bringing the glory to Christ and His people being able to enjoy that forever. Of course there are verses which if taken on their own can sound the way Mormons take it, I get that, but in context that is not what is going on.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

3) Understood on your point about the prayer.

4) I think you are dismissing Mormon 7:7 too quickly.

“7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I did a dictionary check and here is what ceaseless means.

without stop or pause; unending; incessant.

Seems clear enough to me. In my honest blunt opinion I think when Joseph Smith wrote this He was still moderately biblical in his thinking, the other stuff about our own eternal glory did not come till later. I think that Mormon 7:7 means exactly what it says, and I agree with it. I think we will be caught up with Christ eternally, nothing else will have our attention like He will.

5) We will of course see Him like He is, which will lead to what I am saying.

6) I of course think that Smiths views had developed when D&C 130:2 came about, however Mormon 7:7 reflects the Biblical argument much better.

thanks bud, I will try and be quicker next time but rest assured I am not ignoring you if I am slow, thanks!

You say: “I know that Pipers belief is very much that our eternity is spent with God as appose to family etc….”

My response: Why can’t it be both? There is nothing in the Bible that says we will cease to interact with others in heaven.

You say, “We see elsewhere in scripture that God does not share His glory with others…”

My response: Christ says in John 17:22 that God does share it: “And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.” God indeed shares his glory with mankind, through Christ.

You then say: “Christ’s unique position as being God brought this entitlement to the receiving back of the glory He cast aside to come to earth. To say that any of is could pray this is definitly a massive problem.”

My response: When I said I hoped each of us could at some point pray this prayer, I did not mean literally that we would somehow substitute in it for Christ’s role. I was speaking more loosely. I meant that I hoped that someday we could pray with total sincerity for that kind of oneness with Christ, Heavenly Father, and each other that he prays for in his prayer.

You say: “LDS people do often seem to have a problem with the idea of an eternity communing with God. Of course there is the caricature of playing a harp, always more of a guitar player myself. It may surprise you that I think the Book of Mormon puts this well.

“Mormon 7:7

“7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

“I take it you would disagree with this?”

My response: LDS people have no problem with the idea of spending an eternity communing with God. What a strange accusation! Why, however, would anyone think that all we will do is sing praises (in the literal, stand on the risers with the choir sense)? Is that all He wants us to do in this life? if not, why is that all he would want us to do in heaven? In his heavenly kingdom, I see us singing ceaseless praises with our every thought and every action–which is really what we should be doing in this earth life.

Nothing in the Bible requires such a limited, sing-in-the-choir-only, view of our participation in God’s heavenly glory.

To the contrary, the Bible suggests we will be doing much more. For example: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” John 3:2.

I like what God revealed to Joseph Smith about what we will be doing: “And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.” Doctrine & Covenants 130:2.

Peace.

I take God acting according to His good pleasure just in the way that it is said. He does whatever He wants, when He wants.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Funnily enough there is a John Piper talk on this too http://www.desiringgod.org/sermons/the-pleasure-of-god-in-all-that-he-does

My purpose in doing this post was to show that while Gods primary goal is the demonstration of His glory that is actually the best thing He could ever do for us, as our ultimate satisfaction can only be found in Him, so the more He and people seek the display of that glory the more good is being done for mankind. However this is not with the endgame of our glory, but rather the end game of Him being glorified by us eternally, again the most satisfying eternity we could ever hope to have.

For me the idea that Gods work and glory is our eternal life misses this completely.

Rather we should say our work and glory is to display the excellencies of our God eternally. As Mormon 7:7 seems to put well.

This article would sum up well where I am coming from

http://www.gotquestions.org/glory-of-God.html

I will come back to you on this at some point.

I think I would disagree that God’s glory ever increases, but rather it is displayed. However its possible we are saying the same thing there,

I guess as I am reading your comments I am finding a lot that John Piper and I would disagree with but not necessarily issues clearly dealt with in the talk. I know that Pipers belief is very much that our eternity is spent with God as appose to family etc but you are right I don’t think that is said here.

I am shocked but I guess I should not be that you are saying that the prayer of Christ in John 17 is one that we could all (post exaltation I guess?) could potentially pray. Things like this?

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

We see elsewhere in scripture that God does not share His glory with others, Christ’s unique position as being God brought this entitlement to the receiving back of the glory He cast aside to come to earth. To say that any of is could pray this is definitly a massive problem.

LDS people do often seem to have a problem with the idea of an eternity communing with God. Of course there is the caricature of playing a harp, always more of a guitar player myself. It may surprise you that I think the Book of Mormon puts this well.

Mormon 7:7

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I take it you would disagree with this?

Thanks for your comments. I am learning lessons here in that I know the teachings of John piper overall are certainly in conflict with Mormonism, not least in part because he is one of the most outspoken calvinists out there. However that does not mean a talk like this taken at face value will appear in conflict. Learning all the time, I look forward to your thoughts on my other comments.

I guess I have a little discomfort with Bobby’s statement, that God “acts according to His own good pleasure in all that He does.” That’s probably because of the use of the word “pleasure” which connotes to me more often than not, the idea of self centeredness. Any insights as to the origins and meaning of the word “pleasure” as used in the Bible is reference to God?

Bobby,
I suppose though that if “His own good pleasure” is the same as “His work and His Glory” which is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (LDS view) then I could feel comfortable with that statement. I would want to clarify what is meant by “pleasure” though so as not to be misunderstood.

I also initially have discomfort with the expression that “Gods primary concern is Himself”
I like Ted’s (Christ’s prayer) reference to “oneness”. If “Himself” means that the work which He glories in the most is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” so that we may one with Him, then I think the LDS view would agree with that statement, but again it would need to be clarified so as not to be misunderstood.

“I will start afresh by asking a few questions. Can I assume with you saying you agree with Piper that you have listened to the whole talk?”

Yes. It was a very worthwhile use of my time. It uplifted me. Thank you for sharing it.

“Do you believe that God’s primary motivation is His glory and that this is His motivation in all that He does?”

I believe that, when we reach a state of unity with God as described in John 17, it becomes meaningless to say what is primary or secondary, because it is one:

 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

“Should we be the same in that?”

Yes.

“What do you mean by God seeking to increase His glory? What do you mean by God sharing His glory with us?”

God is perfect and all-glorious. Yet his glory is increased when we, with a freedom to choose, praise and worship and love and follow him. “We love him, because he first loved us.” 1 John 4:19.

As we become more and more one with him, he shares more and more of his glory with us. “For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man,” Moses 1:39, after which, we immediately glorify him more and more.

“Do you see that as the same as what Christ is praying in John 17? Is that a prayer that any of us could just as easily pray?”

Yes, this is what Christ is praying. Is it a prayer I can just as easily pray? I hope, through God’s grace, that there will come a time when I can, with total truthfulness, pray that same prayer.

“If you agree that God is the most satisfying thing that we can ever know, and that the fulness of Joy comes from Him alone, are you agreeing with Piper that your eternity will be spent enjoying and glorifying Him? Is the idea of praising God eternally a satisfying one to you?”

I do agree that “God is the most satisfying thing that we can ever know, and that the fulness of Joy comes from Him alone.” I don’t recall Piper saying in his talk that our eternity will be spent enjoying and glorifying Him. Nevertheless, I hope that my eternity can be spent enjoying and glorifying my Heavenly Father. I don’t believe that means I will be sitting on a cloud playing a harp for all eternity. Enjoying and glorifying my Heavenly Father will involve doing much much more than sitting on cloud playing a harp, or joining a heavenly chorus. It will involve me following him and learning to be more and more like him, more and more one with him, continuing to receive his grace, and ultimately obeying Jesus’s command to “Come, follow me.”

In the New testament only one Greek word is ever used in relation to God and translated as Glory or glorious and that word is
3) Doxa
This word again has a literal translation as meaning “Considered opinion” but again had a secondary meaning when applied to an authority figure corresponding closely to “Personal Honour”
Like the Japanese word San, it is used as a title of esteem and has the same basic meaning in fact in Japanese translations the phrase is Kami San or To San “Honoured God” “Honourable Father”

So we are faced with the truth that when the New testament speak of man and God increasing their glory it is not an increase in fame or fortune, prestige in battle or any thing like that, it is an increase in self worth, personal honour in the eyes of others.

Be as glorious as God, means be has king like, honourable and worthy as the most honourable of all, in whose image you were made.

Maybe in such a light The Gid of the bible does not come across as so arrogant and self important?