Comments on: General Conference April 2014 – Saturday Afternoon Session by Stephen Livings

By: Michael

Michael — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 21:55:50 +0000

Stephen,
To your numbered points (I like the format – thanks):
7) You may not be aware, but the speakers of General Conference are NOT assigned topics. They are directed to pray for divine guidance about the messages that church members worldwide need to hear. As President Monson has described, they “have sought heaven’s help and direction as they have prepared their messages. They have been impressed concerning that which they will share with us.”
Elder Cook’s comments are focused on one important topic within the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not designed to cover the totality of the gospel of Jesus Christ. There were other speakers who covered some of the topics you criticized Elder Cook for leaving out. Here’s the complete line-up of talks offered during conference. Also, if you have a chance, attend a Sacrament meeting in your area on Easter Sunday and they will most likely have speakers assigned topics most directly related to Easter.

1) There is NO Conflict between Alma 43-32-35 and Elder Cook’s statement. They are complimentary statements

2) I’m with Henry Lyons on this one. I believe you have deeply misunderstood the message of Matthew 10:34-38. Take a look at these scriptures with regards to the importance of families to God:
Genesis 1: 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Psalms 127: 3 Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.”
Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”
Matthew 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: “for of such is the kingdom of heaven””.
All of these support Elder Cook’s statement, ““Our Father’s plan is about families.”

3) Paul and the other apostles of Jesus Christ all prophesied after John the Baptist. Do you disregard them?

4) The why did Jesus get baptized – he being perfect? Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us “to fulfil all righteousness”. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a ddove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Acts 2: 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the “promise” is unto you, and to your “children”, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,”Save” yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly “received” his “word” were “baptized”.

5) and 6) Malachi 3: 5 “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”

a) “before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord” is referring to the 2nd Coming.

b) “turn the heart of the fathers to the children” and vice versa through the sending of Elijah the prophet refers to the priesthood authority given in the latter days made available through Christ to seal families into eternal units as the primary organizational unit of the kingdom of God and seal one family generation to another, eventually all the way back to Adam and Eve … “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledgeof the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”
Christ came to unite the entire human family, family to family, generation to generation into eternal life for those willing.

c) In teaching of the faith demonstrated by those no longer living who did not live to know Christ or His baptism, but otherwise lived by faith, Paul teaches in Hebrews 11:39 “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the “promise”: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
d) Also, when Paul teaches of the reality of the resurrection of the dead, he uses the example of the then existing practice of “baptism for the dead” to demonstrate the reality of the resurrection through this rhetorical question, “1 Corinthians 15: 29 “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

By: Henry Lions

Henry Lions — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:54:23 +0000

Dear Guslamma
Why do you feel it is necessary to express yourself in pigeon sixteenth century English? I understand that some may feel parody “bible” English may add a connotation of authority, but in truth you are doing yourself no favours and are simply making yourself hard to comprehend. Perhaps you might like to rephrase your explanations in contemporary language in order to facilitate productive discussion?

By: Henry Lions

Henry Lions — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:43:43 +0000

Thank you for your response Steven but perhaps you can clarify a few things .
It is my understanding from Bobby in my past conversations with him that the Bible is the ultimate authority on theological matters, is the word of God and is the Gospel for the whole world so what exactly are the “wrong hands”?
Is the Bible to be taken literally by all or not.
Matthew 10:34-38 is harsh and unnatural and I feel your basis for excusing it is smacks of simple ontology.
If I may explain.
On what do you base your identification of God as the supreme being the highest in existence worthy of adoration, love, worship?
My love of another person is based on one thing alone Respect and that respect is earned through three things the person’s proven trustworthiness, our mutual tolerance and our innate honesty with one another.

How can I respect someone, supreme being or not, who asks me to hate those I love in favour of him, her, it?
Many would point to the fact that Jesus was referencing the trail of Abraham
I’ll say outright that the God who blessed Abraham with a sons in his old age and then asked him to sacrifice both them to him to show his ‘loyalty’ was not worthy of adoration, love, worship doubly so when at the last moment, after days of mental torture he suddenly says “Hey no, I didn’t really mean it, I was just testing you.” (In the Tora and the Koran God pulls the same trick twice and Ishmael goes through the same trial, as Isaac)
Wanton cruelty is NOT an act worthy of adoration, love and worship.
Would you love God if he asked such a thing of you? Would you continue to feel he was the highest in reality, or would you step back and think, perhaps this being is not what he says he is? Perhaps my faith in his truth is based only on his claims to be telling the truth, while his actions belie those claims.
I hope this is food for thought.
Henry

By: Bobby

Bobby — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 07:31:13 +0000

If you are after a discussion I am going to need a little more than this to understand your argument against what I have said. If you are just here to merely tell the anti-mormons they are wrong without bringing any substance to your arguments then erm……you are doing just fine.

By: guslamma

guslamma — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 21:41:56 +0000

jesus was explaining what happens when you discover the real truth of the oracles of god…they did not understand then…many still do not///strait is the gate and few there be that find it

By: stephenlivings

stephenlivings — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 20:20:22 +0000

Hi Henry. Thanks for your response. I can see how, in the wrong hands, the verses in Matthew 10:34-38 could come across as harsh or unnatural. All I can do is give my view of those verses, which is that God is the supreme being in existence and therefore should be placed highest and indeed is highest in reality. Of course, as a human being, a father and a husband, the playing out of my understanding of those verses probably leaves a little to be desired, but since I believe in God, I accept that God is more worthy of adoration, love, worship, etc. even though the emotional understanding of that is difficult to grasp. I believe that God has blessed me with a wife and children, so I can see how that ‘hierarchy’, if that is the right word, plays out. I hope this makes some sense. Your comments came across to me as quite personal to you and I have tried to respond in kind.
Thanks,
Steve

By: guslamma

guslamma — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 20:10:30 +0000

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? john10/11..Satan wasnt lying about that..he was lying about dying…I think the church correctly conducted itself as “jesus christ only true church”…Whatmore Christ is well pleased ….why do you set the template of the bible as the truth..the moretruth is theBOM..that if studied diligently believing led by the holy ghost you will understand the bible///but you do not understand the bible..Christ was not talking about families in the way of forever when he introduced the enemies within the household talk..when one is on the righteous path sometimes your biggest enemies are the ones closest to you!! AS far as being born again we are talking about an ordinance before it happens -This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one (john) If you want I will explain this !!!!GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SPIRITUAL QUEST

By: Henry Lions

Henry Lions — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:15:49 +0000

Matthew 10:34-38 is perhaps the most accurate prophetic passage in the NT, especially where Mormonism is concerned.
Here we see the Jesus of the gospels in his true colours, here we see the God/man who cursed the fig tree (Mark 11:12-25), told his men not to cast his pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6), violently drove the money changers out of the temple (Matthew 21:12 ), compared Greek gentiles to dogs (Mark 7:24-30 and Matthew 15:21-28) and if he was God incarnate, appears the Jealous God of the Old Testament.
Mormonism especially and denominational Christianity as a whole, destroys families by imparting contention, divisiveness and an unjust sense of superior piety and self righteousness.
The result is shunning, judging and the death of love, and this is what Jesus in Matthew 10:34-38 declares that is inevitable.

Any church or preacher who tells me my son and my daughter, my wife and grandchildren should be less important to me than their God is welcome to keep him, her or it, for I want no part of such a egocentric, attention seeking, being.
For if loving my family makes me unworthy of him, then I am unworthy, but I am worth more in my own eyes and the eyes of those I love for it.