The first thing to say is that God is knowable. The biblical apostle John wrote:

“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)

Jesus came to make God known and declared that to know God is life eternal (John 17:3)

To know God, then, is not only possible but essential if we are to know eternal life. It would seem strange that God would give the world apostles and prophets who cannot give us a clear understanding of the nature and person of God. Who are effectively saying, “We speak for the one true God but don’t ask me any questions about him because I am as much in the dark on the issue as the rest of you.”

Peculiar that we should have had the conversation wherein I quote Mormon prophets on the subject and you, Michael, deny and disavow their words. Indeed, you have even said these men cannot agree among themselves. Well, I know that much to be true but you appear singularly casual about the fact given that this knowledge is essential, according to Scripture, if we are to have any hope of eternal life. Why on earth should anyone trust Mormon prophets on lifestyle issues such as dietary practices if those same prophets cannot give a clear message about the most fundamental question of who and what God is?

The Bible tells us of God:

“God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24)

Now I know the usual Mormon arguments about this but since you who are purportedly led by prophets apparently can’t give a straight answer I don’t think you have anything to say. The Bible tells us that God is spirit. He is not confined to a material body but exists in a way that does not have any parallel in this physical universe, which he made. This is what the Bible tells us and, given the paucity of data coming from your direction Michael, I say we stick with what we know from God’s Word.

In the song of Moses we read, “Who is like you, O LORD, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?” (Ex.15:11)

The psalmist writes, “Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.” (Ps.147:5)

He is a God of infinite perfection and holiness. This is the God Christians serve. Apparently Mormons don’t know him and I so wish you did.

Isaiah, a biblical prophet, had no problem talking about God’s nature:

“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. Who is like me? Let him proclaim it..Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” (Is.44;6-8)

“I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God.” (Is.45:5)

God is knowable through Jesus. This has to do with his character and perfections and nothing to do with anything so crass and trivial as his physical appearance. If we want to know what God is like we look at Jesus, who is, “the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature…” (Hebrews 1:3) Every characteristic of Christ’s nature reflects the character of God’s own nature. Is Jesus merciful? Then the Father is merciful. Is Jesus just in his dealings? Then so is the Father. Is Jesus’ judgement right and true? Then so is that of God the Father. Every aspect of Jesus’ character and nature that we find so admirable and attractive reflects the Father.

God is self-existent, the ground of his own being, “for from him and through him and to him are all things.” (Ro.11:36) If you want to know how this compares with our existence consider the words of John writing of Jesus, “In him was life…”(Jn.1:4) That is to say, the Son is also self-existent. Now consider the words of Paul who, quoting a pagan poet, said of men, “In him we live and move and have our being.” (Acts 17:28) In other words, God has life in himself, but we have life only in God.

God is immutable. The writer to the Hebrews writes of, “the unchangeable character of [God’s] purpose…” (Heb.6:17) and James writes of God as one, “with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.” (Js.1:17) This speaks of God’s person and character, true and consistent, unchangeable.

God is infinite and not subject to limitations.(Ps.90:2; 102:12) He is above and beyond time and space and his existence cannot be said in any way to have a relation to our own, i.e. his does not simply “appear” to be infinite compared with us but is truly without beginning or end.

God knows all things and there is no limit to his knowing (Ps.139:1-16)

God’s wisdom is limitless (Ro.11:33)

God’s righteousness and goodness are perfect (Ps.36:6)

He is perfectly holy (Is.6:5) a comparison with man here worthy of close attention.

He is perfectly righteous (Ps.99:4)

He is perfectly true and faithful (Heb.10:23)

He reigns, Sovereign, over all (Ro.9:15-18) Not held to any great “Plan of Salvation” but only to be true to his own character and perfections.

God is omnipotent, able to execute his perfect will unhindered. (Acts 2:23)

God is spirit, an eternal being of infinite holiness, righteousness, power and mercy. He has always been God, always will be God and, besides him, there is no God.

You see, the terrible mistake Mormons make is in assuming that they alone have the truth and other churches only have some cobbled-together, church councils-hatched, muddling along in the darkness parody of truth. In fact, we have the Bible, which we trust, consult, preach, teach and strive to have form our lives. What is alarming is that, when this question of God’s nature arose, my first instinct was to go to the Bible but your instinct, Michael, was to prevaricate over what your leaders might, or might not have said or meant.

With all my heart I urge Mormons to think about what they are rejecting before they reject the plain and simple truth of the Christian Gospel by which alone we are saved (1 Cor.15:1-2)

Blessings

Mike

The first thing to say is that God is knowable. The biblical apostle John wrote:

“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20)

Jesus came to make God known and declared that to know God is life eternal (John 17:3)

To know God, then, is not only possible but essential if we are to know eternal life. It would seem strange that God would give the world apostles and prophets who cannot give us a clear understanding of the nature and person of God. Who are effectively saying, “We speak for the one true God but don’t ask me any questions about him because I am as much in the dark on the issue as the rest of you.”

Peculiar that we should have had the conversation wherein I quote Mormon prophets on the subject and you, Michael, deny and disavow their words. Indeed, you have even said these men cannot agree among themselves. Well, I know that much to be true but you appear singularly casual about the fact given that this knowledge is essential, according to Scripture, if we are to have any hope of eternal life. Why on earth should anyone trust Mormon prophets on lifestyle issues such as dietary practices if those same prophets cannot give a clear message about the most fundamental question of who and what God is?

The Bible tells us of God:

“God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24)

Now I know the usual Mormon arguments about this but since you who are purportedly led by prophets apparently can’t give a straight answer I don’t think you have anything to say. The Bible tells us that God is spirit. He is not confined to a material body but exists in a way that does not have any parallel in this physical universe, which he made. This is what the Bible tells us and, given the paucity of data coming from your direction Michael, I say we stick with what we know from God’s Word.

In the song of Moses we read, “Who is like you, O LORD, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?” (Ex.15:11)

The psalmist writes, “Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.” (Ps.147:5)

He is a God of infinite perfection and holiness. This is the God Christians serve. Apparently Mormons don’t know him and I so wish you did.

Isaiah, a biblical prophet, had no problem talking about God’s nature:

“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. Who is like me? Let him proclaim it..Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.” (Is.44;6-8)

“I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God.” (Is.45:5)

God is knowable through Jesus. This has to do with his character and perfections and nothing to do with anything so crass and trivial as his physical appearance. If we want to know what God is like we look at Jesus, who is, “the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature…” (Hebrews 1:3) Every characteristic of Christ’s nature reflects the character of God’s own nature. Is Jesus merciful? Then the Father is merciful. Is Jesus just in his dealings? Then so is the Father. Is Jesus’ judgement right and true? Then so is that of God the Father. Every aspect of Jesus’ character and nature that we find so admirable and attractive reflects the Father.

God is self-existent, the ground of his own being, “for from him and through him and to him are all things.” (Ro.11:36) If you want to know how this compares with our existence consider the words of John writing of Jesus, “In him was life…”(Jn.1:4) That is to say, the Son is also self-existent. Now consider the words of Paul who, quoting a pagan poet, said of men, “In him we live and move and have our being.” (Acts 17:28) In other words, God has life in himself, but we have life only in God.

God is immutable. The writer to the Hebrews writes of, “the unchangeable character of [God’s] purpose…” (Heb.6:17) and James writes of God as one, “with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.” (Js.1:17) This speaks of God’s person and character, true and consistent, unchangeable.

God is infinite and not subject to limitations.(Ps.90:2; 102:12) He is above and beyond time and space and his existence cannot be said in any way to have a relation to our own, i.e. his does not simply “appear” to be infinite compared with us but is truly without beginning or end.

God knows all things and there is no limit to his knowing (Ps.139:1-16)

God’s wisdom is limitless (Ro.11:33)

God’s righteousness and goodness are perfect (Ps.36:6)

He is perfectly holy (Is.6:5) a comparison with man here worthy of close attention.

He is perfectly righteous (Ps.99:4)

He is perfectly true and faithful (Heb.10:23)

He reigns, Sovereign, over all (Ro.9:15-18) Not held to any great “Plan of Salvation” but only to be true to his own character and perfections.

God is omnipotent, able to execute his perfect will unhindered. (Acts 2:23)

God is spirit, an eternal being of infinite holiness, righteousness, power and mercy. He has always been God, always will be God and, besides him, there is no God.

You see, the terrible mistake Mormons make is in assuming that they alone have the truth and other churches only have some cobbled-together, church councils-hatched, muddling along in the darkness parody of truth. In fact, we have the Bible, which we trust, consult, preach, teach and strive to have form our lives. What is alarming is that, when this question of God’s nature arose, my first instinct was to go to the Bible but your instinct, Michael, was to prevaricate over what your leaders might, or might not have said or meant.

With all my heart I urge Mormons to think about what they are rejecting before they reject the plain and simple truth of the Christian Gospel by which alone we are saved (1 Cor.15:1-2)

Blessings

Mike

Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart. I have it and its very helpful isn’t it? I was also a Mormon, a temple Mormon and my main role in the Mormon Church was teaching so I can relate to your frustration and confusion when public pronouncements stand in stark contrast to in-house teaching. We have to get used to it because, for as long as I remember, Mormons have been disingenuous about their faith; they just don’t know it.

I agree that lists of texts don’t achieve much. Mormons tend to present them as though they need no exegesis because their meaning is “obvious,” and they are puzzled when someone is dumb enough to disagree. They then take it personally, assuming it must be because no one in their right minds would disagree with “the church” so there must be a mean and despicable motive. You are “an enemy of the church.” Childish really and the only reason I engage at all is because, as Scripture says, “love compels us.” I care that Mormons are deceived, I want them to know the truth in Christ, and if I have to listen to a lot of shallow apologetic to shine the light of Christ so be it.

The Mormon Church doesn’t have theology because it has prophets. If you want to have theology in the Mormon Church you ask your leaders to tell you what you believe. It takes all the heavy lifting out of it. Of course, those prophets are subject to correction from a correlation committee, which is, itself, subject to correction from the ordinary member you happen to be quoting Mormon prophets to at the time.

One important thing to remember is that each generation of Mormons joins a different Mormon Church. Each thinks the way they understand it is how it has always been understood. The temple ceremony I went through in the 1980’s, for instance, changed in 1990, but it had already changed several times by the time I got to the temple and will, no doubt, change again.

I have yet to come back on the question of God’s nature. I haven’t yet decided whether make it a blog post and a link here but I will do my best to ensure it includes some carefully reasoned theology. Will it make a difference? We are all in God’s hands on this point, as on so many others, but I trust him that he works in Mormon hearts, after all, he worked in mine.

Blessings

Mike

I want to also comment on the atomistic presentation of lists of verses. It isn’t useful to present lists of scriptures without even a hint of exegesis. I am left to conclude that there is little understanding. Michael (not Miketea) you clearly have some time on your hands given that you have time for your numerous posts. I suggest, sincerely that you get a copy of “How to Read The Bible for all it’s Worth” By Gordon Fee. There’s a co-author whose name escapes me. You should also make use of a quality commentary. You see, I and some others who post here have been members of the LDS movement and are now Christians. We understand the Mormon position and since having become Christians can see down both sides of the street. I am not saying you have to agree, but having spent some time to understand why Christians believe what they do, will help engagements here.

In the last few weeks I have begun to wonder why the LDS church does not do theology. There is a tremendous amount of material dealing with Christian doctrines but no response or correction from the LDS church. I would love it if the church addressed it’s own doctrine of God specifically addressing I Cor 8:6. Phil 2 and Rev 5. Even in Mark we see that he goes almost as far as John in identifying Jesus as God. How do we account for strict monotheism in the first century CE and reconcile it to the Mormon doctrine of God (though from reading here it seems the church leaders don’t understand it) Paul as a strict Pharisee rewrote the Shema and included Jesus in God’s divine identity. This means separate from all creation. How do we reconcile the Mormon doctrine of tritheism to what we read in the NT? It would be great to have some serious work done in this area. Work done by the church but it seems BYU lacks theologians and the church Prophets who know much. Of course it would mean giving up on the campaign to be accepted as part of the Christian church.

I’m perfectly fine admitting that there are aspects of God’s nature that I don’t know and that no one I know knows.

Mormonism does provide for me and my family and many others everything we need to need to know to sufficiently guide through our lives and get us closer to knowing God much more than we otherwise would. Gotta go for now – looking forward to your view on the nature of God :-)

I had expected that you would have sufficiently understood at least the fundamentals of your faith to readily see the obvious connection between what Eyring said and the nature of God. Every Mormon I ever knew back in the day would have been able to make that connection because this is what we were taught. But you don’t know what you believe, your leaders don’t know what you believe and can’t agree among themselves about the nature of God and the true nature of man.

Your message of “restoration” is that there was a great apostasy in which church leaders didn’t understand the nature of God and had to hold councils to hammer out what they believed (this is historically untrue but lets not go there now). You are meant to have restored the truth that they, it is claimed, lost but this and other conversations like it demonstrate otherwise. Are Mormons staring in the face of another apostasy and isn’t it about time your leaders held a council themselves to hammer out these essential things? Because a growing number of issues that once were clear are becoming obscure.

You can’t give a straight Mormon answer on the nature of God, the nature and destiny of man, the purpose of life, where we came from and what we were in that place, why we are here and what we are, and where we are going and what we will be when we get there. You use terms like “children of God” but cannot answer the most fundamental questions about what God is and what it means to be his children.

In your thinking you have stripped away all the fundamentals of Mormonism that were once as instinctive as breathing to Mormons and ended up with a religion in which you worship someone you don’t begin to understand for a purpose you can’t be sure you know and with “explanations” that bring obfuscation instead of the revelation that Mormonism promises. So, it comes down to this one question. Why should anyone take Mormonism seriously?

Blessings

Mike

I will be glad to use the terms I find in the Bible as I have done. The question is, Do you believe we are “the offspring of God” as Paul taught or that God is the “Father of our Spirits” that we are “children of God” or that we were created in the image and “likeness’ of God or that we have the potential to become “perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect”.as Christ taught?

Final answer to your question:
I do believe the Bible when it says, we are “the offspring of God”, “children of God, created in the image of God, in His “likeness” and that Jesus Christ has provided the means and directive for us to become “perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect”