RESPONSE:
“On page fourteen of his book, “Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson,” the thirteenth president of the LDS Church stated it was in the Garden of Gethsemane that Christ “suffered as only as God would suffer, bearing our griefs, carrying our sorrows, being wounded for our transgressions, voluntarily submitting Himself to the iniquity of us all, just as Isaiah prophesied.”

He further stated on that same page: “It was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him” (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.15).

In his book “The Promised Messiah,” Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote, “Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the sins of all who ever had or ever would repent” (pg. 337). On page 552 of the same book McConkie continues by saying, “In a garden called Gethsemane, outside Jerusalem’s walls, in agony beyond compare, he took upon himself the sins of all men on condition of repentance.”

On pages 127-128 of McConkie’s “The Mortal Messiah,” he wrote, “And as he came out of the Garden, delivering himself voluntarily into the hands of wicked men, the victory had been won. There remained yet the shame and the pain of his attest, his trials, and his cross. But all these were overshadowed by the agonies and sufferings in Gethsemane. It was on the cross that he ‘suffered death in the flesh,’ even as many have suffered agonizing deaths, but it was in Gethsemane that “he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him.”
(see http://www.mrm.org/gethsemane)

It is true that recently Mormon Leaders have been adding “and the cross” (and in “gethsemane and the cross”) when they talk abut the atonement but it is clearly nothing more than spin that’s in reaction to criticism on Mormon atonement dogma, nothing more.

YOU WROTE:
“Christ taught us, Faith without works is dead. You have to live his teachings to be saved, not just profess you believe in him.”

RESPONSE:
Actually that was the Apostle James and in context he was referring to how we as humans are to evaluate if someone is already saved or not:

James 2 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In a nutshell, from the divine perspective God already knows who has saving faith in Christ through grace and who doesn’t. We humans require something more to know who’s REALLY believed and who hasn’t: The evidence of works.

YOU WROTE:
That quote that Mormon Church said. “Believe and today you’ll be on probation for paradise” is a fallacy.

RESPONSE:
Really? So do mean to tell us that the thief on the cross (the context and case study that I was arguing from) went immediately from the cross into “full salvation” – which in Mormon theology means the Celestial Kingdom/Celestial Exaltation?

If so, you’re contradicting what your leaders teach. BEST case he was on probation for possibly achieving Celestial Exaltation later – assuming that he accepted the full Mormon gospel in the Telestial/Terrestrial Kingdom and some living Mormon got proxy baptized for him in a Mormon Temple.

EVERY Mormon I have ever presented the case study of the thief on the cross has so argued the thief on the cross’s case,YOU are the exception. And I have verified that it is indeed consistent with what some Mormon Leaders have taught via my own study. Again, you’re the odd man out here, not I.

YOU WROTE:
“To call yourself a religion, based on hate of another church, is not a divine Christ like behavior…Slamming others who are religious is not a Christ like attribute.”

RESPONSE:
First, who’s hating? Disagreement is disagreement it’s not hate.

Second, if you want to start defining disagreement as hatred you’d better call all those “hating” Mormon Missionaries in from the field because here’s what they’re teaching investigators hatred from the LdS Missionary cirricullum “Preach My Gospel”:

For example, on page 44 says:

“Restoration: To restore means to return to a former condition, or to bring back.

The Restoration, as used by Latter-day Saints, means that the true Church of Jesus Christ, which was lost through apostasy, was brought back as it originally existed when organized by Jesus Christ. Unlike the Reformation, the Restoration was accomplished by divine authority through revelation.”

And turning to page 35 does it says:

“Without the Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted, and unauthorized changes were made in Church organization and priesthood ordinances, such as baptism and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost. Without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

False ideas were taught as truth. Much of the knowledge of the true character and nature of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost became distorted or forgotten. The priesthood authority given to Christ’s Apostles was no longer present on the earth. This apostasy eventually led to the emergence of many churches.”

Finally on page 37 it says:

“In this vision God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph Smith. The Savior told Joseph not to join any of the churches, for they “were all wrong” and “all their creeds were an abomination.” He stated, “They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof”
(Joseph Smith—History 1:19).”

So as for the claim that, “We don’t attack other Churches!” I can only respond: “Yeah . . . right!”

NOTE: For the readers unfamiliar with “Preach My Gospel” it is the training ciricullum for all LdS Missionaries. You can read the original here: http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/36617_eng.pdf

YOU WROTE:
“Be careful what you say, you are driving more people into investigating the Mormon Church and they are walking out members now.”

RESPONSE:
Actually, the flat growth rate and the low activity rate in the LdS Church says quite the opposite. Critics aren’t the ones in trouble. Sorry.

So Michael you can stopping “doing” and just “be” and still receive full salvation – as the thief on the cross did?

– No Temple Recommend?
– No Temple Endowment?
– No baptism?
– No Temple Marriage?
– No Mission service?
– etc., etc., etc.

Christ says, “Believe and receive”; the Mormon Church says, “Believe and then work.”

Christ says, “Just believe in faith and you will be fully saved”; the Mormon Church says, “Do! Do! Do! And you might be fully saved.”

Christ says, “Believe and today you will be in paradise”; the Mormon Church says, “Believe and today you’ll be on probation for paradise.”

There’s clearly a world of difference here!

All Uchtdorf has done here, is worded nicely the tired old message that Mormons need to work with God to become godly, not grace.

Your explanation further makes my point

“… though the difference between Gethsemane and Golgotha might appear to be a trivial technicality, it underscores the vast differences between orthodox Evangelical Christianity and Mormonism. By situating it at Golgotha, Evangelicals locate the atonement in the sacrifice of Christ; by situating it in Gethsemane, Mormons locate the atonement in the obedience of the believer.
It’s the difference between grace and works. On the one hand, there is the truly finished work that the believer looks to in faith; and on the other there is the completed demonstration that the believer aspires to recreate (albeit metaphorically). In the latter, Christ might show the way, but he stops short of becoming the way, thus the believer is thrust back on his own efforts to secure the goal. As one recent commentator noted, Mormonism is more about attainment than atonement, but such a focus denies the redemption narrative that is so highly valued by Evangelicals.”
(see http://beggarsbread.org/2012/08/13/scolasticus-cum-peter-principle/)

On one hand I’m pleased to see the LdS Church reconsidering it’s unbiblical teachings on grace, but on the other hand I’m disappointed that they haven’t done more or gone further. Perhaps this is just the beginning. I sure hope so.