Comments on: What Is Actually Going On With the Court Summons?

By: Michael

Michael — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:26:40 +0000

Thank you Ted!

By: Ted Meikle

Ted Meikle — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 15:15:15 +0000

Although you gave us three updates on this frivolous summons while it was pending, you never found it worthwhile to report what the Court decided.

It is a short opinion–only three pages–which can be found at http://img.ksl.com/slc/2516/251638/25163829.pdf

Here are excerpts from the decision:

***

“The information on which the summonses are based is contained in correspondence from Mr Phillips to the court from October 2013 to January 2014.

***

“These two summonses both state that failure to attend may result in a warrant being issued for Mr Monson’s arrest. It is common ground that that is wrong.

***

“The way the information was put before the court over a period of time makes it hard to isolate the essential ingredients. I have looked for a direct assertion that Mr Monson made the specific representations set out in the summonses. To this end I have read the 120 pages provided by the prosecutor [Mr Phillips]. I invited Mr Bird [Phillips' attorney] to take me to the relevant passages. In the paperwork I find assertions that Mr Monson “has caused to be made statements of fact which are untrue”; assertions that as President of the Church Mr Monson is responsible for statements of the Church; numerous assertions that Mr Monson knew false statements were being made; and assertions that Church doctrine makes the particular statements averred. It would be relatively easy to state explicitly that Mr Monson has made these specific representations, and when and how the misrepresentations were made. This has not been done.

“Even if Mr Monson has made the representations complained of, the basis for the complaint that he made them dishonestly (or intending a gain or a loss) is too tenuous. It is not sufficient to found a criminal prosecution.

“I do not accept that the essential elements of the offence are present in the information as presented to me.

“Is the prosecution vexatious?

“It is obvious that this proposed prosecution attacks the doctrine and beliefs of the Mormon Church, and is aimed at those beliefs rather than any wrong-doing of Mr Monson personally. The purpose is to use criminal proceedings to expose the false (it is said) facts on which the church is based.

“It is inevitable that the prosecution would never reach a jury, even if Mr Monson chooses to attend. To convict, a jury would need to be sure that the religious teachings of the Mormon Church are untrue or misleading. That proposition is at the heart of the case. No judge in a secular court in England and Wales would allow that issue to be put to a jury. It is non-justiciable.

“I am satisfied that the process of the court is being manipulated to provide a high-proflle forum to attack the religious beliefs of others. It is an abuse of the process of the court.”

***

By: David Green

David Green — Tue, 04 Mar 2014 03:58:26 +0000

Hi Austin, the reason I’m able to live near, and be actively involved with my Mormon family and neighbors is because I love them so much and I understand that everyone is at a different level of development. People need different things at different times in their lives to grow and gain wisdom. Some people need the safety a religion offers. It’s not the Mormon church that hurts your family and friends, or my family and friends. It’s their own capacity to deal with the information offered them. It’stheirchoice, theirfree will. You want to talk about selfishness? Let’s talk about taking away someone’s free will, because you know better than they. I find myself taking a more subtle, yet potent approach. I’m not perfect, but I try to live my life as an example of non-judgment/love. I try to communicate and spend time with them in this way, and the effect, which I see daily, is my loved ones willingness to open their minds, peel back the layers of awareness. Some have remained Mormon, while others have not. Either way, it’s Perfect!

By: Michael

Michael — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 05:08:07 +0000

Rose, Mormonism does NOT believe in a one size fits all belief system. It clearly teaches in a system of degrees of glory based upon the agency of each individual. As Paul taught, (1 Corinthians 15:40-42) “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.So also is the resurrection of the dead.” Mormonism does, however seek to assist as many as are willing to prepare for the glory of the sun.

By: Rose

Rose — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:57:35 +0000

Just can’t understand why people would devote their whole lives to a religion based on the words of a Man Joseph Smith they’ve never meet. Christianity as a belief system is much simpler and works – Mormonism appears to cause depression (see Utah anti depressant levels – highest in America). Life is a mystery, why we are here etc. but man wants answers especially to what happens when we die. Instead of accepting this uncertainty people create ‘death conquest’ religions. We have the answers. Believe this and you don’t have to worry. If you are told things over and over again, all the people around you believe it too, hay presto! You feel security that you have found the answers. 1826 conviction of Joseph Smith ( have a look at the original court documents ) glass looking. Pretending he could find treasure with his special stone. He admitted he could not. I think the whole thing got out of hand. So many people wanted something to believe in that he couldn’t admit he wasn’t really a prophet. Mormonism is a life system, a culture more than a religion. People hang onto it for dear life because it is their life. What are they if they are not Mormon. Whatever proof that is given they will still believe. It’s simply too hard not to. It’s a pretty bad plan if this is all God has to offer. He’s not doing great as a parent with only 4.5 million active Mormons in the world (that’s the church’s own figures). What is that as a percentage of the population. I like to see faith as the spokes of an umbrella. All leading to the same place. I am right and you are wrong ends up murdering people. No power who created a universe would have a one size fits all approach. Indoctrination, brainwashing, programming – does that happen in the LDS. Perhaps that is the question to ask. Good luck with it all.

By: Austin

Austin — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 17:47:16 +0000

I’m not assuming anything. In order for the church to have literally “not one nanothread of influence in [your] life”, you would have had to have either had all of your friends and family leave with you, or abandoned them to the church. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you physically abandoned them. Only that you stopped caring about their well-being in regards to the church. That’s what I mean by “abandoning to the church”. Maybe you’re still physically present, but you don’t care enough about them to want to help them.

I can only go by what you said. If what you said is true, then the rest is self-evident. I’m sorry that you’ve allowed my directness in that regard to wound you, but I’m not going to sugar coat it.

Either you care about the truth and your friends and family enough to want to do something, or you’re selfish.

I guess the 3rd option is that you’re just lazy, and you think the church IS true, but you’re too lazy to put forth the effort.

Whatever the case may be, most people don’t fit into any of those categories, and so it is virtually impossible to leave the church and just ignore it while it harms their friends and families.

Some people can do that though. And I guess it’s great for you if you can. Not so great, however, for those that you might ‘care about’… Whatever that would mean, in such a context.

By: David Green

David Green — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 17:21:32 +0000

Mr. Austin, you are way out of line to assume that by leaving Mormonism I selfishly left my family and friends as well. You know nothing about my life, yet somehow you think you can accuse me? I rightfully take offense with your selfish judgement. I am truthfully sorry you have allowed the church to wound you in such a way. It has become it’s own living entity in your mind. You really should have someone look at that for you.

By: Austin

Austin — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:36:32 +0000

David Green,
It’s not the simple for everybody. Just because your situation is such that you allegedly no longer have any ties the the church doesn’t mean that it’s not a very real issue for most.

As I said, my wife is still mormon, much of my family still is (though I take at least some credit for the exit of much of my family from that cult so far already), many of my friends and neighbors are as well.

It certainly may be possible for people like yourself to leave mormonism and abandon their friends and family to have their minds, lives, and wallets raided by the church, but I don’t operate that way. When I see others in danger or distress, I feel compelled to at least TRY to help.

If that’s not how you operate, that’s fine and dandy, but it doesn’t reinforce the attitude by mormonism that the only reason to try and help others see the truth about Mormonism is in being motivated by bitterness and hate. Quite the opposite is generally true.

To me, what you claim to have done is incredibly selfish, and I wouldn’t be able to operate like that.

By: David Green

David Green — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:21:52 +0000

Austin, it’s true Mormonism has its flaws as does any religion. But two points I’d like to bring up. One, you’re wrong about being able to separate from the church. I left the church as an adult and after having gone on a mission myself. I live in Utah. And I can truthfully say there is not one nano-thread of influence on me. Two, you’re taking it all just a little too serious. We are not here to be slaves to a religion or slaves to our own mind. You want freedom? Then be free!

By: Michael

Michael — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:11:31 +0000

Austin, I’ll have to pick this up later – off to Church. My niece is speaking in Sacrament today and has invited us all. I sure do enjoy being with family at Church :-)