Comments on: Do You Agree With Scott Gordon?

By: Bryant Smith

Bryant Smith — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 23:49:41 +0000

Ned, the sermon now known as the King Follet Discourse was given by Joseph Smith at General Conference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Follett_discourse

By: Bobby

Bobby — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:32:28 +0000

In all seriousness this is an area I am simply trying to understand, Ned if you are reading this I would love to hear an episode from you on this subject and I would be happy to participate in it if you would like.

By: Bobby

Bobby — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:30:40 +0000

All understood john, you are obviously aware that we have differences of opinion on some things and I guess this is another, however I appreciate your comments and take them on board.

Obviously no Mormons are being denied of their right to believe anything that they want by my blog post, I am just asking a question that I feel needs asking, thanks

By: John W. Morehead

John W. Morehead — Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:25:06 +0000

Hi, Bobby. I enjoyed our exchanges on Facebook yesterday. Thanks for responding to my comments. I think there might be a misunderstanding. I don’t deny that Joseph Smith taught various things about the nature of God and man, including divine embodiment, divine progression to godhood, and that human beings can also experience this exaltation. I also disagree with such teachings. Simply because I advocate a more diverse and complex understanding of Mormonism, and that we should engage them in civility as trusted rivals rather than enemies, does not mean I don’t disagree with them, or that I don’t share the gospel with them. Having said that, of course if there is dishonesty we should raise that as a concern. If we can prove it. In my praxis I assume honesty and presume good will until proven otherwise. But beyond that, it just may be that there are differences of thought within Mormonism, and some Mormons lean more Evangelical and distance themselves from official teachings on God. In order to understand Mormonism in all its complexity and diversity (other religions exhibit this same thing) Evangelicals should be willing to acknowledge this, and not always force Mormons to address official teachings that they may not have a complete grasp of (just as many Evangelicals fail to articulate a sophisticated Evangelical theology) or completely agree with. I think we have to meet Mormons where they are, and not constantly try to bring them to where we think they should be in regards to their stance on official teachings. Isn’t the gospel framed for each of us as individuals as well as broader religious cultures?

Finally, we might remember that Mormons have strong connections to their concept of God. For them, the immaterial God of Christianity seems less than real and personal. In addition. when we critique their God concept they feel attacked in their identity. This doesn’t mean that we should hold back on sharing our perspectives, but instead that we need to exercise empathy when we engage such topics.

By: russeast

russeast — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:56:34 +0000

Hi Tobin Drake, Yes, there are several accounts of the First Vision, but as to Joseph claiming that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans and is an exalted man seems to be awfully well accepted regardless of the different accounts of the First Vision…that is irrelevant. Please ask 10 LDS Bishops if the LDS church teaches that Heavenly Father is an exalted man like you and me, but just exalted…feel free to call me at (801) 645-7433 Your friend, Russ http://www.upfc.org

By: Bobby

Bobby — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:53:52 +0000

Thanks for that John.

Rest assured I am not trying to convince these guys to take these unbiblical views on. Also if this was a discussion with say, a Mormon Missionary and they gave a flimsy answer I could live with that as they are young and do not know much. However for the president of the longest standing organization defending Mormonism (I think it is) to say that this is merely speculative theology without acknowledging. the other side of the issue is, I feel very dishonest.

Joseph Smith said

These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

Lorenzo Snow as reinstated in this years manual gave the couplet we all know very well.

Yet Scott Gordon said that the key message of Mormonism is God speaks today. My question to the Apologists is how do these go together? How does God speak today through Prophets yet we can ignore Prophets teachings that are clearly and boldly stated, many Mormons are with me on that question.

Still standing by.

By: John W. Morehead

John W. Morehead — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:27:09 +0000

Like any religious movement, there are different streams of thought and practice within Mormonism. In “Mormon Christianity,” Catholic scholar Stephen Webb identified two of them, one he labeled an “evangelical Mormonism” identified with Bob Millet, and another he labeled “metaphysical Mormonism” identified with David Paulsen. Rather than assuming dishonesty, perhaps we can consider the possibility that Scott is honest and exercising good will, and that he represents a stream closer to Bob Millet’s thought. It is not uncommon for certain expressions of a religious tradition to be at odds with more “official” and institutional forms of that religion. Perhaps too Evangelicals should not force church members into accepting what we understand as official teaching. Shouldn’t we encourage a shift away from aspects of Mormon metaphysics which we find troubling?

By: tobindrake

tobindrake — Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:53:26 +0000

I’m sure you may not be aware of this, but there are several First Vision accounts. So given that, what you just claimed is as clear as mud.

By: Russ East

Russ East — Mon, 16 Dec 2013 20:45:27 +0000

Tobin, the LDS story of the First Vision makes it very clear that your teaching is that the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Period.

By: Bobby

Bobby — Sun, 15 Dec 2013 22:37:11 +0000

Hey James I really would appreciate a response on this, I dont feel I was in anyway contentious.

Simply put, how have you come to the belief that Hinckley was speaking as a Prophet on that interview? But on the other hand not believe the other materials I showed you from LDS sources were not spoken with that authority?