Comments on: October 2013 General Conference Review, Relief Society session by Vicky Gilpin. http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2013/10/14/october-2013-general-conference-review-relief-society-session-by-vicky-gilpin/ Fri, 30 May 2014 16:23:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Charles Dayton http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2013/10/14/october-2013-general-conference-review-relief-society-session-by-vicky-gilpin/#comment-6837 Wed, 16 Oct 2013 06:37:30 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=1777#comment-6837 Thank you for your reply. I think your selection of scriptures is good. I know this is an old debate that precedes the formation of the LDS Church. My observation of the evangelical view is that there is a dichotomy. On one hand, a person claims salvation and receives the fruits of the Spirit, evidence of a true change of heart. On the other side, the person accepts Christs but fails, by his behavior, to exhibit a pattern of Christian living. The argument is that he was never really saved.

It seems that Mormons place a greater emphasis on agency and its role in salvation. Even God will not rob us of agency after we recognize who He is and His ability to save us. Discipleship, is a choice – perhaps a lifetime of small choices. Given our guaranteed imperfections, we can (and must) repent and seek to overcome the flesh. I have seen instances where prayer has overcome a lifetime of alcoholism instantly. There are others who will wrestle with that, or other self-destructive behaviors, to the end of the days – but continue on, seeking his grace and exercising the degree of agency that they possess.

Anyway, enjoy your writing and hope to meet you and Bobby in person some day.

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By: Vicky gilpin http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2013/10/14/october-2013-general-conference-review-relief-society-session-by-vicky-gilpin/#comment-6822 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:17:25 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=1777#comment-6822 Hi Charles, thank you for your comments and questions,

your first question…

1. What role, if any, do we have in our own salvation after we have accepted Christ? Beyond exercising agency to accept Christ, are there no longer spiritual consequences for our decisions?

I think Romans gives a good answer to your question. Here it says that having believed in Christ we are now dead to sin, obviously we are still capable of sin but we are no longer slaves to sin as we were. We can choose to sin, but our desire is not to sin. If we do sin then Holy spirit convicts us in out heart and leads us to repentance.

Romans 6:1-7
(NASB)
Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become [a]united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be [b]in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old [c]self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be [d]done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is [e]freed from sin.

2. In the US, some research shows that the lifestyle of Christians is essentially no different than non-Christians. Is it possible that the incredible capacity for self-deception that we have as humans leads to a false sense of salvation, we then going back to sinful behaviors, unrepentant and making a mockery of Christ’s atonement?

I believe there are many who identify themselves as Christians, who are not. For example particularly in the UK, many people if asked their religion on a form, would state that they are Christian. They say this because England is and has always been considered a Christian country with the Queen as the head of the Church.

That been said is it possible for someone to fool themselves into thinking they are a Christian? I don’t think so, the bible says that the Holy spirit witnesses with our sprit that we are children of God. (Romans 8:16)

A genuine conversion will lead to a changed life, God is at work in us.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

And as we walk in obedience, the fruits of the spirit should start to be seen in our lives.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

If someone were to supposedly come to Christ, and then ten years later, have no evidence for this in their lives, I would doubt that their conversion was genuine. After all becoming a Christian is not just a matter of making a decision, the Bible says that we are given new hearts, (Ezekiel 36:26 that we have circumcised hearts. (Romans 2:28-29) We are changed by God, into a new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

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By: Charles Dayton http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/2013/10/14/october-2013-general-conference-review-relief-society-session-by-vicky-gilpin/#comment-6819 Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:09:53 +0000 http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/?p=1777#comment-6819 Good writing Vicki. I think you would make a great Relief Society president:) As a Mormon, a couple of questions:

1. What role, if any, do we have in our own salvation after we have accepted Christ? Beyond exercising agency to accept Christ, are there no longer spiritual consequences for our decisions?

2. In the US, some research shows that the lifestyle of Christians is essentially no different than non-Christians. Is it possible that the incredible capacity for self-deception that we have as humans leads to a false sense of salvation, we then going back to sinful behaviors, unrepentant and making a mockery of Christ’s atonement?

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