“There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.”

then I don’t see any mention of kingdoms within heaven or God rewarding people according to how well they have kept the laws and ordinances of the gospel. (3rd article of faith). If these verse are read in context then a completely different understanding is clear. We are looking at the difference between people’s bodies before and after the resurrection: “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.” The other obvious omission here is any use of the made up word ‘telestial’.

I had a glance at the Brad Wilcox article and I picked up on this: “you have plenty to do, but it is not to pay that debt. We will all be resurrected. We will all go back to God’s presence to be judged. What is left to be determined by our obedience is how comfortable we plan to be in God’s presence and what degree of glory we plan on receiving” I don’t see this fitting in with the teaching of the Bible at all. The Bible does not teach that there are ‘degrees of glory’ in heaven. Rather it teaches that if you are ‘in Christ’ then you are no longer condemned (Romans 8:1) Romans 8 goes on to explain that those ‘in Christ’ live by the spirit and not by the law and this means we are children of God and co-heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:16-17) So we do not need to determine our level of glory by our obedience. Our works can add nothing to what Christ gives us: “if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” (Romans 11:6)

(Steve) I’d like to look at what you said above regarding how you described salvation. You said that we are justified when we receive Jesus as our Savior. I would agree with this. However when I look in the Bible, Romans 8:30 goes further than this: “and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” So this means that we do not add glory to what the Lord has given us. In fact, this is impossible since we have all fallen short of the glory of God. The glorifying is done by God. 2 Cor. 3:5..our sufficiency is of God;
(Ned) I agree that the glorifying is done by God and not by man however there is a glory of the sun, a glory of the moon and a glory of the stars. 1 Cor. 15:41. Could these be the degrees of glory within the judgment of rewards? I think so. Again it’s not my call or work it is His.

-Ned Scarisbrick

I’d like to look at what you said above regarding how you described salvation. You said that we are justified when we receive Jesus as our Saviour. I would agree with this. However when I look in the Bible, Romans 8:30 goes further than this: “and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” So this means that we do not add glory to what the Lord has given us. In fact, this is impossible since we have all fallen short of the glory of God. The glorifying is done by God.

You also said, “being sanctified which is a process that takes place over time. Being changed by grace.” This is also something I agree with. Once people are saved they can be changed through God’s grace, but this is God working in their lives. This process is not something people can claim to their own credit or worthiness, as Hebrews 13:12, “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood”. So it is the work of Jesus that sanctifies us.

Finally, I do believe that in heaven people can be ‘rewarded’. For example, Matthew 5:12 suggests that those who are persecuted for their faith receive a reward in heaven. No specifics are given there though, apart from knowing that their reward is ‘great’. This is not to be equated with being glorified. We can only ever share in God’s glory if we are ‘co-heirs with Christ’.

We all know that LDS doctrine is quite different to this. In the Book of Mormon we learn that we are saved by grace ‘after all we can do’. This negates grace, as Romans 11:6 so categorically states: ” And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” So this leads to the natural conclusion that if we must do “all we can do” (which is surely impossible) in order to be saved, then it is no longer a grace-based salvation, but a works-based salvation. The Bible tells us it can’t be both. So Mormons do truly believe that living with God after death (or ‘exaltation’ in LDS terminology) is only possible if it is earned.

I would just say we are not offended by you doing your podcast, I am certainly not thats for sure, to be honest I think its quite cool, having a chance to have dialogue with you on the back of a podcast like this is a first for us, and so we are just taking the opportunity. Please dont feel that we are offended or annoyed to have, had you do the episode, not at all, I just didnt expect a ministry as small as ours in the scheme of things to get noticed by you guys at Fair.

talk soon

-Ned Scarisbrick