While I am waiting for your reply to try and shorten the lime this is going to take, I will start another reply to give my understanding of the questions. Jeff Walsh
PS did you get my comments on 2Ne25 and Moroni 10?

Although I am presenting information critical of Mormonism I have always made it my goal to have positive friendly discussions where possible, whether you agree with my motives being loving or not that is the way I see it.

However I do appreciate how this can feel to someone from your perspective so I appreciate why were you saying what you have said, lets have a fresh start and hopefully have some good discussions. I totally respect you as a Mormon and your right to believe what you believe and please by all means challenge anything I have said in this blog that you wish to, and I look forward to some good thoughtful discussions.

Regarding the context you brought to the Lucy Walker story I would simply say thankyou, I am glad to think there is a nicer part to the story and you have challenged me to look into more sources before I add comments to a discussion. However this is still a case where Joseph Smith approached a 17 year old girl to be his plural wife and told her that her family would be saved too, thus putting a lot of pressure on her.

This is very much still a concern of mine even if there are nicer sides to it, I believe there are cases where Smith told women that he would die if they did not marry him also, this even more so concerns me, however none the less you have brought extra information on the discussion and i appreciate it, I in no way claimed to be “clever”, this is not a battle of the wits for me but rather I am following Gods call to reach out to people who are not following the biblical gospel, which Galatians 1:8 gives a clear warning on.

To start with I do not have any problem with plural marriage the word of the Lord whether you like it or not is that it was a commandment given to us from the Lord. If you are in possesion of one of our standard works called the Doctrine and Covenants please read Section 132 where Joseph asked the Lord to explain why he the Lord had justified Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc to enter into plural marriage. Section 132 is the answer. Joseph and others accepted this commandment and entered into plural marriage. These marriages were entered into and they were legal and binding.

The real problem though is to separate out the conditions that most of the “marriages ” were entered into, Joseph received this revelation as early as 1831 but was very reticent to publish the revelation because he knew what a storm of persecution that would come from the already hostile people outside of the church , and it was not until Jul 12 1843 that he had the revelation put into print.

As I said in my last message many of the so called marriages were in fact sealings contracted under what was called the law of Adoption. Some of the marriages were entered into and were consumated, I freely accept this, what your problem is that you do not believe that this was the Lord’s will, can you prove it wasn’t?

I am glad that you brought up the marriage of Joseph Smith to Lucy Walker, this is a perfect example of the way people anatganistic to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints mislead, twist and add things and which do not appear in the original story. The origin of the story which you say comes from http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org is actually taken from the Daughters of Utah Pioneers called “Reminicicences of Latter-Day Saints compiled by Lyman O Littlefield. Interestingly he says of one entry what he calls a very interesting contribution kindly furnished to these pages by Mrs Lucy Walker Kimball.

The story which you claim as authentic taken from wivesofjosephsmith.org only gives a shortened and twisted and distorted version of what Lucy actually gives., I will show you how the twisted and bitter minds of those who try to blacken the name of Joseph Smith operate.

Your version begins about a third of the way through the story and opens with the Walker family arriving in Nauvoo in the spring of 1841. By the way your story does not give any background of what Nauvoo was really like when the Saints, who had been driven out of various places because of persecution, was like at that time. The old place called Commerce later named Nauvoo was on a bend of the Mississippi river and was mostly swamp land until the saints drained and cultivated the land which eventually became a very lovely and large city. I am sure that it was the swampy conditions which was the cause of the malaria which took the life of Lucy’s mother. Again your version misses out what Lucy’s mother said to her family before she died. Calling her children to her bedside she bore a faithful testimony as to her convictions that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that through him the gospel had been restored in its fulness. She adminished her children never to depart from the truth
Your information now starts with the twisting of the facts, Lucy says her father was heartbroken and his health “seemed to give way”. She then says that Joseph Smith came to the rescue and says to her father John, if you remain here Bro Walker you will soon follow your wife, you must have a change of scene a change of climate. What Joseph is saying that the atmosphere that they were living in ie. the swampy conditions would not suit his health, to combat this Joseph sends him on the first of his 2 missions to the Eastern States, not to get rid of him but for the sake of his health. The Prophet then very kindly says that most and eventually all of the family move into the Nauvoo House which had just been built as an hotel to house visitors to the City. Obviously 15 year old Lucy is concerned about the family being split up in this way. Joseph then said “My home shall be your home, eternally yours”, I understood him not.

Lucy then says, and of course this is also left out of the twisted account, My father sought to comfort us by saying two years will soon pass, and the with renewed health he hoped to return and make us a home where we might be together again. She then says, and again a glaring ommision because this shows the compassion of Joseph, her sister aged 8 yearsand 11 month Lydia is attacked by brain fever and the when Joseph sees how sick she was, Joseph took her and baptised her in the Mississippi River, and then nursed her until she died. The Lucy says this:-

“Here allow me to say that our own father and mother could scarcely have done more or manifested greater solicitude for her recovery than did the Prophet and his wife Emma.” Later on she says, “The Prophet and his wife introduced us as their sons and daughters, every priveledge was accorded us in the home. She then goes on to tell us that her brother William married and after staying at the Nauvoo House for 6 months went and set up home for themselves and took the children with them.

She then recommences the story by going back to 1842 when Joseph saught an interview with her and said I have a message for you, The story goes on nearly the same as your narative, except instead of Jospeh saying it will have to be a secret, what he actually says is Although I cannot, under the existing circumstances, acknowledge you as my wife, the time is near when we will go beyond the Rocky Mountains, and then you will be acknowledged and honoured as my wife. This principle will yet be believed in and accepted by the righteous”. The Prophet then tells her it is a commandment of God and you need to decide on this matter. The reason why Joseph could not acknowledge her as a wife was because the revelation had not at that time been printed

Again left out Lucy says that Joseph, seeing her distess said, “God Almighty bless you, You shall have a manifestation of the will of God concerning you, a testimony that you can never deny, I will tell you what it shall be . It will be that joy and peace that you never knew.”

The following is not given by your narrative, “Lucy says it was near dawn after another sleepless night when my room was lighted up by a heavenly influence. To me it was in comparison, like the brilliant sun bursting through the darkest cloud. The words of the Prophet were indeed fulfilled, My soul was filled with a calm, sweet peace, that I never knew. Supreme happiness took possesion of me, and I received a powerfull and irresistable testimony of the truth of plural marriage, which has been like an anchor to my soul through all the trials of life.” she then goes downstairs and Joseph opened the door below, took me by the hand and said, ” Thank God, you have a testimony , I too have prayed.” he led me to a chair and then placed his hands upon my head and blessed me with every blessing my heart could possibly desire.

Now here comes a very typical tactic of the evil minded person who authored you version, Lucy says , “The first day of May 1843, I consented to become the Prophets wife, and was SEALED to him for time and all eternity, at his own house by Elder William Clayton. Your version said that Lucy MARRIED Joseph as a plural wife and lived and cohabited with him. This is obviously added by the person perpetrating the lie. Your version says that Emma was not there and knew nothing about this, and did not consent to the marriage, this is again a lie.

Lucy says in the true account, ” Emma Smith was present and did consent to Eliza and Emily Partridge, also Maria and Sarah Lawrence, being SEALED to her husband. This I had from the Prophet’s own mouth, also the testimony of her neice, Hyrum Smith’s eldest daughter. as well as that of the young ladies named themselves.

As for Lucy saying that “it was not a love matter, so to speak, in our affairs, at least on my part it was not, (implying it was on Joseph’s),

What she actually said was, ” In this I acted in accordance with the will of God, not for any worldly agrandizement, not for gratification of the flesh, How can it be said we accepted this principle for any lustful desires Preposterous.

Emma said that her one regret was that I have not been a more worthy representative of the principle of prural marriage.

Lucy said that following the sealing to Joseph and, following his martyrdom she became the wife of Heber C Kimball as a plural wife, who cared for and looked after her welfare and indeed had 9 children by him. She says that she had a wonderfull life and was supremly happy.

What a different picture your perversion of the account gives.

I have pointed out the truth and have shown what I have been saying all along, There are people in the Church who are willing to look into these things, but there are those who are not content to accept blindly as presumably you and your band of so called “Christians” portraying yourselves as caring people are. Whereas I believe what you really are i wolves in sheep’s clothing spoken by the apostle Paul says would come in the last days.

I am also sure that just as Joseph Smith has been vindicated by the truth so all the other outrageous lies and blasphemous things he has been accused of will have the same vindication

All of the other peversions of the things you say about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can be answered too

So Bobby maybe you are not as clever as you portray yourself.

Could I suggest that you spend your time doing something constructive in you life rather than trying to destroy the faith of people who do not accept teachings of the Bible the way you do.

I have been tempted to point out the glaring errors in the doctrines that you so called “born again Christians ” believe such as the concept of the Godhood as explained by the Council of Nicea, But I will resist the urge. Jeff